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Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace

Living in America’s Fringe Economy

By Howard Karger, Dollars and Sense. Posted December 29, 2006.


Millions of Americans live on the margins of the American economy, depending on the likes of payday lenders and pawnshops, who charge excessive interest rates and superhigh fees for their services.
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Ron Cook is a department manager at a Wal-Mart store in Atlanta. Maria Guzman is an undocumented worker from Mexico; she lives in Houston with her three children and cleans office buildings at night. Marty Lawson works for a large Minneapolis corporation. (The names have been changed to protect the privacy of the individuals.) What do these three people have in common? They are all regular fringe economy customers.

The term "fringe economy" refers to a range of businesses that engage in financially predatory relationships with low-income or heavily indebted consumers by charging excessive interest rates, superhigh fees, or exorbitant prices for goods or services. Some examples of fringe economy businesses include payday lenders, pawnshops, check-cashers, tax refund lenders, rent-to-own stores, and "buy-here/pay-here" used car lots. The fringe economy also includes credit card companies that charge excessive late payment or over-the-creditlimit penalties; cell phone providers that force less creditworthy customers into expensive prepaid plans; and subprime mortgage lenders that gouge prospective homeowners.

The fringe economy is hardly new. Pawnshops and informal high-interest lenders have been around forever. What we see today, however, is a fringe-economy sector that is growing fast, taking advantage of the ever-larger part of the U.S. population whose economic lives are becoming less secure. Moreover, in an important sense the sector is no longer "fringe" at all: more and more, large mainstream financial corporations are behind the high-rate loans that anxious customers in run-down storefronts sign for on the dotted line.

The Payday Lending Trap

Ron and Deanna Cook have two children and a combined family income of $48,000 -- more than twice the federal poverty line but still $10,000 below Georgia's median income. They are the working poor.

To make ends meet, the Cooks borrow from payday lenders. When Ron and Deanna borrow $300 for 14 days they pay $60 in interest -- an annual interest rate of 520%! If they can't pay the full $360, they pay just the $60 interest fee and roll over the loan for another two weeks. The original $300 loan now costs $120 in interest for 30 days. If they roll over the loan for another two-week cycle, they pay $180 in interest on a $300 loan for 45 days. If the payday lender permits only four rollovers, the Cooks sometimes take out a payday loan from another lender to repay the original loan. This costly cycle can be devastating. The Center for Responsible Lending tells the tale of one borrower who entered into 35 back-to-back payday loans over 17 months, paying $1,254 in fees on a $300 loan.

The Cooks take out about ten payday loans a year, which is close to the national average for payday loan customers. Although the industry claims payday loans are intended only for emergencies, a 2003 study of Pima County, Ariz., by the Financial services for the poor and credit-challenged are big business.

Southwest Center for Economic Integrity found that 67% of borrowers used their loans for general non-emergency bills. The Center for Responsible Lending found that 66% of borrowers initiate five or more loans a year, and 31% take out twelve or more loans yearly. Over 90% of payday loans go to borrowers with five or more loans a year. Customers who take out 13 or more loans a year account for over half of payday lenders' total revenues.

The Unbanked

Maria Guzman and her family are part of the 10% of U.S. households -- more than 12 million -- that have no relationship with a bank, savings institution, credit union, or other mainstream financial service provider. Being "unbanked," the Guzmans turn to the fringe economy for check cashing, bill payment, short-term pawn or payday loans, furniture and appliance rentals, and a host of other financial services. In each case, they face high user fees and exorbitant interest rates.

Without credit, the Guzmans must buy a car either for cash or through a "buy-here/pay-here" (BHPH) used car lot. At a BHPH lot they are saddled with a 28% annual percentage rate (APR) on a high-mileage and grossly overpriced vehicle. They also pay weekly, and one missed payment means a repossession. Since the Guzmans have no checking account, they use a check-casher who charges 2.7% for cashing their monthly $1,500 in payroll checks, which costs them $40.50 a month or $486 a year.

Like many immigrants, the Guzmans send money to relatives in their home country. (Money transfers from the United States to Latin America are expected to reach $25 billion by 2010.) If they sent $500 to Mexico on June 26, 2006, using Western Union's "Money in Minutes," they would have paid a $32 transfer fee. Moreover, Western Union's exchange rate for the transaction was 11.12 pesos for the U.S. dollar, while the official exchange rate that day was 11.44. The difference on $500 was almost $14, which raised the real costs of the transaction to $46, or almost 10% of the transfer amount. Without a checking account, the Guzmans turn to money orders or direct bill pay, both of which add to their financial expenses. For example, ACE Cash Express charges 79 cents per money order and $1 or more for each direct bill payment. If the Guzmans use money orders to pay six bills a month, the fees total nearly $57 a year; using direct bill pay, they would pay a minimum of $72 in fees per year.


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See more stories tagged with: fringe economy, economic rights

Howard Karger is professor of social work at the University of Houston, and author of Shortchanged: Life and Debt in the Fringe Economy (Berrett-Koehler, 2005).



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decent
Posted by: rsaxto on Dec 29, 2006 12:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we had a decent government in the USA these criminal predators (CEOs) would be in jail instead of being rich and their working victims would be much less likely to be thrown in jail and/or into poverty. Instead of the people owning their government, the selfish rich own our government and its people as well. It is a new form of slavery.

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» RE: decent Posted by: b4upoo
» RE: ya but Posted by: Gregor
The Ugly Truth
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 29, 2006 2:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somewhere along the line our country has changed from one based upon a strong sense of community and fairness to an 'I've got mine so eff you' attitude. Americans have been sold a bill of goods for a couple of generations now and it's been financed by the liquidation of assets and overextended credit.

Tens of millions that think of themselves as middle class and above the rabble are but one or two ugly blows from being in a financial trap with no easy way out. They have borrowed and leveraged everything to keep up with the Joneses and are living way beyond their real means. They have bought the NeoCon lies hook, line and sinker, voting for politicians and polices that are directly against the public, and their personal, interest.

The dirty little secret is that the uninsured, under-housed and fringe-economy population work, many 2 and 3 jobs to pay their own way. They make too much for government means-tested help, but not enough to get ahead. They are derided as trailer trash/poor white trash/etc. by people in the media that would howl with outrage if the same vitriol were applied to any ethnic or racial group.

Our nation is drowning in debt: government, corporate, institutional and personal. US currency is a house of cards balanced upon the Dollar being the standard reserve and exchange currency. When the rest of the world gets tired of seeing their Dollars depreciated they will move away from the Dollar to the Euro or other currency. When it happens nobody will have to tell you because things will get very ugly- very quick.

When the Dollar starts it's free fall the tens of millions that supported the NeoCons and DLC types that have stripped consumer and financial protections from the law to benefit their campaign contributors are going to feel very duped and betrayed. When interest rates on their debt shoots sky high, credit becomes very tight and rapidly inflating prices for necessities exceed their deflated income they will see the personal price of their political folly.

All the things laid out in the article above are examples of a culture based upon greed, selfishness & denial. Our nation has been living in a Fool's Paradise and the bill will come due. When it comes things are going to be ugly for all but the very wealthy (liquid- not on paper).

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» RE: The Ugly Truth Posted by: xi_people
» RE: The Ugly Truth Posted by: Jacksprat1
» Re-Liberally Challenged Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Concentration Camps Posted by: MSharp
» RE: The Ugly Truth right on! Posted by: sasquuatch55
Some states make it easier
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Dec 29, 2006 3:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Banking is mostly regulated at the state level - some states have made it easier to get low or no fee checking accounts. Requiring a certain level of bank competition helps too. Banking was never one of the dog-eat-dog sectors of capitalism, at least since the Depression - it's supposed to be regulated, dammit!

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Whole Scale Change
Posted by: anothername on Dec 29, 2006 3:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When housing prices started to stablize and to fall earlier in 2006, a commentator noted that there is no problem with people being able to meet mortgages. The problem was that people could not sell their houses if they ran into financial difficulties. There's a message in there somewhere, but I'm not quite sure how to interpret it. The attitude seemed appropriate to share here, however.

We have payday lenders and high interest rate car loans because the market demands it. Worse, the lack of investment in public transportation, housing by jobs and grocery stores/pharmacies, and other practical services forces people to buy cars, spend money on health insurance or health care, and otherwise need to consider payday lenders. We also have a culture that makes $70 for a cell phone with unlimited calls seem like a bargain, when a landline costs less than $30 and is useful if there are not many long distance calls.

Banks do not use the official exchange rate, either. Those "free" traveller checks are paid for by a small variation on exchange rates. Thus, Western Union's charges do not bother me.

Laws allow, and insist, upon renter background checks that cause $20 and higher application fees. I'm sure that there are numerous other examples that people can give of nickels and dimes that add up to creating a need to go to a payday lender or to turn to a credit card, for many lower-than-median income households.

My point is that we cannot just blame payday lenders and the ilk. We must look at the larger picture, and that means investing in our communities and our citizens so that people can make fair choices based on their income. Heck, it also means letting people choose jobs that do not pay $100,000 a year while still being allowed to have decent housing, quality environmentally-friendly transportation, and good health care and retirement savings options.

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» RE: Whole Scale Change Posted by: kbiteye
oneyedjack
Posted by: oneyedjack on Dec 29, 2006 3:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree predatory lenders and other assorted scumbags that take advantage should be eliminated. However, I'm not quite sure just what other point the story is trying to make. An immigrant - may or may not be able to get a checking account - I know quite a few who do have same. Mr. Cook and wife with 48K per year and 2 children have only themselves to blame for falling into the payday lending trap. Georgia is relatively low cost living (unless you are in Atlanta proper), and 48K should be enough to live on. Many, many, many families with children in this country have much less and would love to have 48K a year.
I'm 69, wife 65 combined (only) income social security 27K, and that is before medicare and prescription plan deductions. We live in Philly, rent, maintain an 8 year old car with insurance and both have bank (checking) accounts. No credit cards. Just finished Christmas which means presents for 10 grandkids and other family members. We can still eat out on occassion (no, not a fast food joint). And no, we have no ready reserves or savings to fall back on it is a matter of making do. I am not thrilled with having to just "make do" but that is the reality of it all.

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» RE: oneyedjack Posted by: b4upoo
» RE: oneyedjack Posted by: greengeez
In my mid-sized southern California city...
Posted by: Sojourner on Dec 29, 2006 3:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...there are no banks in the larger areas of the city that are poor, but there are check cashing and payday loan storefronts. I don't know if that's because banks won't do business with people who don't have an account there (I wanted to buy a roll of quarters one time but couldn't do it, or use my credit card for a cash advance, unless I had an account at the bank) or whether people go where they know they will not be personally hassled, just charged more.

My bank used to keep a branch in a poor neighborhood but moved when they got tired of having their ATM jammed regularly by kids who also drove the public phones off the street by damaging them.

Yes it's a vicious cycle. Urban areas continue to deteriorate. Little or nothing is done to rehab those areas because when that has been tried in the past, resistance to change has come from the local areas; they have no other place to live.

No, you will not find bargains, of any kind, in poor neighborhoods. All prices are higher on the basics of food, clothing, and shelter. Our economy requires an Underclass. Capitalism means that we have winners and losers. Always has, always will.

Usury laws? Who do you think pays for political campaigns in this country? The financial sector. Doesn't matter that their profit levels continue to rise; they continue to demand more. It's what power is all about.

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The irony!
Posted by: katrivers64 on Dec 29, 2006 5:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone else have payday loan shark ads popping up in the sidebar as you read this very article? Does any of this sort of advertising go to Alternet? I don't know how this sidebar ad thing works . . .

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» RE: The irony! Posted by: MAD
» RE: The irony! Posted by: DaBear
» RE: The irony! Posted by: YogiBear
Fiat Money!
Posted by: mite on Dec 29, 2006 6:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all stop Illegal Aliens from entering this country.

Second: Any business who caters to Illegal Aliens should have their business fined and owner put on propation.

Third: End The Federal Reserve Board and Federal Reserve Bank.

Fourth: Inforce Executive Order 11110 signed by President Kennedy to return U.S. Back to the citizens and coin our own Money as per the U.S. Constitution Article1, Sec: 8.

Fifth: Reclaim our Undisputed & Unalienable Rights:

Sixth: Examine the 16th (IRS) and 17th (Election of Senators) Amendments of the U.S. Constitution.

www.wtpconstitutionalactivism.org

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» RE: Fiat Money! Posted by: rverne8
» RE: Fiat Money! Posted by: sasquuatch55
Nothing will change until the Left stops focusing on Race-and-Gender Politics
Posted by: emmanuel_goldstein_fights_fake_lefties on Dec 29, 2006 6:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing will change until the American left stops focusing on race and gender politics. Race-and-gender politics divides the populace into warring factions. That is why the much of the white working class votes against their own interests and voted for Bush, etc.

And look at all the little posers here on this thread talking about how so many workers to work two jobs. THEY don't do it. Most of them are trustifarians.

I only know one person who works two jobs--a brazilian immigrant who works at walmart with my wife and also cleans apartments. She does not need to do that-- her husband inspects oil pipelines and makes enough money. She just wants to buy a car for herself.

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Shysters
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Dec 29, 2006 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people should be shunned by the community, assets seized, and prosecuted for usury. In the old days citizens wouldn't put up with these crimes and would, lacking proper government oversight, tar and feather those bastards. We need major banking reform couple with strong usury laws.

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» RE: Shysters Posted by: b4upoo
» RE: Shysters indeed Posted by: sasquuatch55
I can remember the day the bankruptcy bill was sign how pawn shops in my area
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 29, 2006 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
cheered and celebrated. They were nasty as they were but nowadays they're even nastier. For example, most of the clerks are free to cuss at their customers and what's worse, they actually get rewarded for doing it. If we want to save social security, we must first get off the bureaucratic wagon and save the economic lives of people of all ages by GUNNING down the policies in America that allow politicians and bad CEOs to run up the debts on purpose all the while the same policies that ruthlessly punish poor and middle class individuals who are FORCED into bankruptcy which is rarely of their own doing unlike what the corporatists would have you think.

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Where is Soros when you need him
Posted by: TnMan on Dec 29, 2006 8:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe George Soros should start his own pawnshop / payday lending institution and charge reasonable rates for the services he provides. He'd get plenty of business.

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Here in Louisville....
Posted by: CatDad on Dec 29, 2006 9:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are certain sections of town where these "payday" loans are popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm...There are a couple of areas where there are such establishments literally every 500 feet. Back in the olden days it was the mafia that used to make such loans...the government considered it "usury" and did not allow legitimate businesses to do this...it was all underground. Now in our predatory capitalism economic model...the concept of "usury" is considered outdated...the skies the limit on interest rates! Too bad if poor working class folk or newbie E-1 military recruits get get into trouble....

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Marvin R
Posted by: Marvin R on Dec 29, 2006 9:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ultimately, in a democratic state, the voters are responsible for the government they elect.

If they are controled by a government that intentionally utilizes all means of communication to propagandize and manipulate the voters, (Remember Hitler?) and the moral leadership is silent, (Religions), what are our alternatives? Submission? Anarchy?

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» RE: Marvin R Posted by: b4upoo
NYS Government says......
Posted by: picket on Dec 29, 2006 9:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"they can hang up."..... relating to an editorial today in the Albany Times .."CALL IT AN OUTRAGE"..... about how families and friends of New York inmates have to pay 5x as much for a call from their loved ones. 57.5% of the profit collected by Verizon or MCI goes back to the Dept of Corrections [?????to pay for food???]
The families and friends thus are paying part of the cost of the incarceration. The editorial makes a good point I think,."..that obligation[ the cost of incarceration] should be considered settled when they[family] pay their state taxes".
Living on the fringe with all those HIDDEN taxes!!!!!!

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For a few Dollars more...
Posted by: ekipnrut on Dec 29, 2006 9:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A MUST read:
For an extremely incisive and fact focused perspective
on how the issues discussed in the article manifest them-
selves in an international 'global economy' context, see
Vandana Shiva on NPR (December 13, 2006):
linked text

The link will take you to NPR...then just use the 'search' tool
within NPR on "Vandana Shiva"...the first two items are
compelling ...WELL worth reading!

But getting back to some 'local' items in America,
Start with:
1) Raising the minimum wage to say 15.00/hr. and indexing
regular periodic increases to indicia of increased cost(s)
of living.
As I understand it the Dems are proposing a raise to 7.25
over a two year period....this extends from 30 to 70 feet
a lifeline thrown to someone 200 feet out.
2) Universal health care
3) Affordable safe mass transit
4) Forgiveness of all student loans and massive curtailment
of existing programs. Higher Ed would be FREE...up to
and including Graduate and Professional school(s).
HOWEVER beneficiaries of same would in turn give
2-4 yearsof community/public service (including military),
the latter(military)on a voluntary basis.
There is no sense in people having to mortgage their
lives to acquire an 'education' that society needs them
to have in order to function and grow...I mean we do
want society-as a whole- to function and grow..right?;o)
5) A MEGA undertaking of rebuilding the decaying infra-
structure.This wouid provide billions and hundreds of tho-
usands of jobs for(cuirrent) subsistence level workers

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See you soon at the food bank
Posted by: shangrilalad on Dec 29, 2006 9:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Millions of Americans have been priced out of the consumer market. We don’t buy trendy gadgets, luxury automobiles, or vacations homes; we can’t even afford health insurance. Many of us can barely afford basic necessities, like food, rent, and medicine.

Every day tens of thousands of formerly middleclass Americans are joining our ranks, thanks to the escalating outsourcing of our jobs, rapidly increasing rents, utilities and insurance. For fifty or sixty million of us, your future is our reality now.

Republicans have gotten away with the greatest rip-off in history with their middleclass tax cuts written in disappearing ink. To finance actual tax cuts for the most affluent Americans, they have mortgaged your future beyond your ability to pay. They are printing money which is essentially worthless because the cost of repaying loans we owe to ourselves and foreign countries greatly exceeds our ability to repay without massive tax increases in the future. Who do you think are going to be taxed to repay those loans? Not the rich, many of their tax cuts haven’t even kicked in yet. They have been granted immunity from future tax increases.

Not to worry though, give the Republicans enough rope and they will hang themselves, along with he rest of us.

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Predatory lending: This is one of the few instances in which I could tolerate...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Dec 29, 2006 10:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the government stepping in, restricting our liberties, and protecting people from their own poor planning, stupidity, and (in some instances) devastating circumstances beyond their control by shutting these awful "businesses" the hell down.

Pay-Day lending companies that exercise predatory lending practices (all of them, currently) should be subject to some RICO-esque prosecution. I've seen too many people utterly and intentionally ruined by these scumbags.

As a (very aside) side note, how many folks out there know that a certain greedy, disgusting oinker named Al Sharpton was hawking these predators' services upon "his people"--or as people who genuinely give a damn about civil rights like to call them--OUR fellow citizens.

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» Pretty obtuse. Posted by: ABetterFuture
know someone
Posted by: Gregor on Dec 29, 2006 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know someone who owns one of those PayDay Loans that charge ridiculous prices. In Oregon they did put a cap on it, but he has a beautiful home built in the real trendy area of Oregon. AND I don't think the cap or the reduction amount really affects him much. He and his wife only care about showing off their luxuries with their friends...I say bring back peer pressure where it is not cool to have new things. Where it is not cool to own a big home or a brand new expensive car. If we change how we respond to these stupid a-holes who have to show off "stuff" all the time so they can be in the "In" crowd, we would put their own perception of themselves into a tailspin. Majority rules and the elite groups are put down for their boorishness.

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» RE: know someone Posted by: babs
» RE: know someone Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: know someone Posted by: sasquuatch55
» RE: know someone Posted by: Hardcore Hopeful
critic
Posted by: critic on Dec 29, 2006 10:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the answer is forcing higher than market value wages hurting mostly the small business owner who creates a bulk of jobs in the economy, and more government regulation and the leakage on the economy that costs. Not a mention of educational programs and jobs training to help these people move up into the mainstream. Seems that would be a much longer lasting, more cost effective and better for all solution that more government regs that won't be enforced and disincenting business owners from growing.

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Education
Posted by: sheena2u on Dec 29, 2006 11:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must find the way to educate people about predatory businesses. We must let people khow easy it is to be entrapped, and how possible it is to make better choices in life.

The next step is to put laws in effect that outlaw usury, and predatory lending practices. We must also eventually change the bankruptcy laws back, and allow people to sue medical organizations when the people are harmed by them. We now have too many laws that give excess power to big companies while taking power and protection from people. We must wake up, and take our country back.

We must end the big tax cuts for the very rich. These tax cuts are immoral and they are crippling our country. We can raise the minimum wage, and provide health care for every American. We can do alot of things for Americans, and for America when we stop tolerating public representatives who put corporate interests above the needs of the people.

We must educate ourselves enough to elect representatives who are interested in the welfare of the people they serve, and who have the will and talent to lead. We must be discerning enough to make better choices in life, and elect represenatives who have integrity and honor to uphold common good over the desires of predatory companies, monopolies, and white collar criminals.

We can have a better world, and a better country. It doesn't have to be the way it is. We can have a world where fairness and decency reign. We can offer our children a world where cooperation, honesty, and social responsibility is the rule rather than the exception.

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» RE: education Posted by: critic
» Disagree.... Posted by: CatDad
» RE: education Posted by: sheena2u
» RE: ducation Posted by: sasquuatch55
Use Mozilla Firefox
Posted by: doctorsquared on Dec 29, 2006 11:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and you can turn off all the sidebars you want to.

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A question re: debit cards
Posted by: just john on Dec 29, 2006 12:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In your rundown, you mention this stat:

... and sold approximately 172,000 prepaid debit cards.

Is there a problem with prepaid debit cards that I don't know about? Or was this just to illustrate the huge size of the corporation you were describing?

All things considered, this was a very good article.

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Yes, it's all those things but how about personal responsibility too?
Posted by: MAD on Dec 29, 2006 1:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rent-a-Sofa, Mr. Crack Payday Loans, Hoopty Auto Sales and the like are predators who benefit from the precarious socio-economic position of lower-income consumers, but let's not forget that, no matter how monolithic the institution or predominant the practice, there is that troubling matter of personal responsibility to be discussed. Discussions like these are always fascinating to me because they so closely resemble a deterministic pity party.

I am not prepared to assert that [insert your scapegoat here] is not, at least in part, responsible for the predicament in which a variety of Americans find themselves but just answer this question honestly:

How many "poor" Americans can afford cable t.v. but can't pay the electric bill? How many have Dish Network or premium channels like HBO but are always late on the rent? How many drive cars they cannot afford (and often drive them uninsured) but can always afford an eighth? How many underpriveleged folks have you seen spend $50 getting drunk come Friday night? I know, I know - their lives are so devoid of hope that drink is all they have. Now that we've cleared that up, how many of you know minimum wagers that still manage to purchase a $200 cell phone? After you're done flaming me, pay attention to these small but important details. I won't deny that the cards are stacked against the lower classes, but the American entitlement mentality is partially to blame and we all know it.

I do believe that Americans are cheated regarding healthcare and a variety of other essential service, but no one puts a gun to someone's head and obliges them to accept a credit card with 17% interest or a new sofa that totals $2500 dollars upon final payment.

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» why no bank account? Posted by: mnlefty
» A2=Ann Arbor? Posted by: Torgo
» Full of it Posted by: scryberwitch
» RE: Full of it...Yes Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: and then ther's the advertisers Posted by: sasquuatch55
The Mainstream Banks are Far Worse
Posted by: outwest on Dec 29, 2006 1:57 PM   
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I just got through with five years on the fringe as 'the working poor'. I had weekly visits to check cashing places, pawn shops, 'debt consolidation' scams . . . we had outrageous interest rates through our mainstream lenders because of our ever dwindling credit score (often due to our debt consolidators that paid everything 16 days late consistently . . . but I digress).

Our house suddenly rocketed in value (thank goodness we owned a home) and we sold it, paid off all our earthly debts, and bought another home with what was left as our down payment. Now we have only a modest home loan as debt. Life is wonderful!

But what I wanted to comment about is that the whole time I had a reasonable paying job, never defaulted on any payments, and didnt live extravagantly. But payday loan establishments (and it's true they were very expensive) saved us from thousands of dollars in mainstream bank fees.

Case in point: due to unexpected medical expenses, car repairs, etc. sometimes we would find ourselves maybe 20 dollars short once things got bad. There were a couple of times when we accidentally bounced a check for [literally] $2.12 which wound up costing us [literally] upwards of $300 at the bank by the time all the fees compounded. We finally tired of that and started using pawn shops and payday loans.

It worked and we finally got out of our hole. But had it not been for those joints we would be bankrupt and homeless at the moment. People don't start their problems at the payday loan centers. The payday loan centers are the only alternative to bankruptcy after all the 'mainstream creditors' that are shielded from demonization get through with people.

I worry as people demonize those businesses and try to legislate them out of existence what will happen for people [in the situation I was in] in the future. A lot of these people who self-righteously criticize the fringe locations are desperately misguided as to the real problems with the 'mainstream lenders'. I often felt like the payday loan centers were kind of the 'Bailey Savings and Loan' (from it's a wonderful life) who at least offer some possibilities compared to Henry Potter's bank (i.e. Wells Fargo, Citibank, and the rest) who just charge fees up the wazoo to only their poorest customers until they have no alternatives left.

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» overdraft protection? Posted by: mnlefty
The American economy
Posted by: willymack on Dec 29, 2006 4:21 PM   
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Our economy is near collapse. The only reason it's not apparent as yet is that the rest of the world will go down the chute with us if we fall, and is trying to keep us afloat. This won't (and shouldn't) continue much longer because of the contemtuous attitude of the crooks in Washington towards the rest of the world. We're close to the point where they'll say : "To hell with them; let 'em sink and we'll take our chances".

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» RE: The American economy Posted by: yellow
Double-edged sword
Posted by: terihu on Dec 30, 2006 12:41 AM   
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Yes, the corporations who prey on the poor are scum, and the way they squeeze exorbitant fees for basic banking services should be regulated and controlled. I'm all for holding the rich and powerful responsible to the rest of society...but I have no illusions that this would put an end to the problem.

Let's not forget that a lot of the poor CHOOSE not enter into the mainstream economy, for their own odd and (to me) incomprehensible reasons.

For example, a woman I know is married to a man who is dealing with child support issues from a previous relationship, he's been ducking his court-ordered payments for years, claiming that he gave his ex money but didn't keep track of it, etc... I don't know whether or not to believe him, it's probably one of those partial truths: he did give her some money, but not as much as he should've, and now she's claiming he never gave her anything. You know how nasty these things get.

While it's understandable that HE doesn't want a bank account because it gives his ex a way to take his money, SHE could open a bank account in her own name, no problem...cash his checks for him (he works under the table, so he could even have them written out to her)...but no. Neither of them have a bank account and go to a check cashing place each week.

I've suggested, repeatedly, that she open her own bank account, but she won't do it. Partly because she's just passive, and partly because having that power over him makes her uncomfortable. This is her twisted idea of marital solidarity, her way of standing by her man. Until they can open a joint account together, neither of them will have one.

Go figure.

We can change the system, but that doesn't mean those who are being exploited will make use of the changes.

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The nanny government
Posted by: gellero on Dec 30, 2006 2:36 AM   
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No one forces people to do any of the above, or for that matter, have kids to support. If check cashers are bad, don't borrow. If you can't borrow, don't buy. If you can't afford rent, live with your mon and dad....not my problem.

And how much do you think wages have been depressed by illegal immigrants?? If you think check cashers charge too much, open a business and charge less.

Oh, excuse me, all the posters here are whiners. The actual work of setting up a business and risking your own wealth is always the other guys job.

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» RE: The nanny government Posted by: MSharp
Poor choices
Posted by: gordonroy on Dec 30, 2006 6:50 AM   
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The pay day loans companies only exist because there is a demand for them. Nobody is forced to borrow from them and everyone knows that it is expensive. You only have to have made use of their services once or twice to work this out for yourself. The reason why people borrow money is because they want to have something now that they cannot afford. They want to live the American Dream but cannot afford it. People live in the 3rd world on a fraction of the salary that a lowly paid worker earns in America, and they do not starve and they do not make use of credit, and by and large they are happier than our "poor" American workers. Why do average / poor Americans have to have cars? - there is public transport. Why do they have to have 2 cars? Why do they have to drive American gas guzzlers, that are fuel inneficient and pollute the environment? Why not drive a fuel efficient Korean import which costs far less?