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Want to Win the Immigration Debate? Start Talking About Illegal Jobs

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted May 1, 2008.


We must focus on the unregulated and substandard jobs that migrant workers fill, rather than on the individuals who work them.

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Note: AlterNet is proud to announce the launch of our new Special Coverage area focusing on immigration issues -- our 14th in all. We hope to advance a new and more progressive way to approach immigration.

Hopefully, we'll do so as a community. You can take part in the discussion by signing up for our free weekly immigration newsletter, or by bookmarking our new Immigration Special Coverage page, where we'll also have a dedicated immigration blog that will bring AlterNet readers the latest news and some lively debates on the issue.

*****

The often-overheated immigration debate is a distraction that draws attention from far-reaching problems facing American workers, particularly those on the bottom rungs of the economic ladder.

Many immigrants' right advocates argue that newly arrived workers take jobs that Americans won't do. That's only partially true; many unauthorized immigrants fill nonunion jobs that are impossibly crappy, pay poverty wages and are rife with workplace violations, and they work those jobs side-by-side with millions of natives and legal residents. The reality is that there are not enough Americans who are willing or able to tolerate poverty wages and other workplace abuses.

Understanding that dynamic can lead to a radically different approach to the issue -- to different methods of decreasing the number of unauthorized immigrants in the United States and of regulating the flow of new immigration in the future.

Anarchy

Those who advocate more law enforcement to tackle the immigration issue often invoke images of America descending into anarchy -- of a nation losing control of its borders and, therefore, its sovereignty. Many blame "Big Business," believing that the corporate world, through its congressional lackeys, has pushed to "open" the borders to all comers in order to keep wages low and assure a steady supply of cheap labor.

That narrative is objectively false. For more than ten years, lawmakers from both parties have thrown billions of dollars into beefing up border security. In 1994, the United States spent just $550 million to guard its borders, but that figure quadrupled under Bill Clinton and then quadrupled again under Bush -- by 2005, it had increased to $7.3 billion, and most analysts expect the border security industry -- that's what it is, an industry -- to continue its strong growth.

During the same period, the number of illegal entries into the United States also increased significantly. Pumping billions of dollars into more patrols and installing all manner of shiny new security gizmos along our 2,000-mile southern border has only resulted in an increase in arrests, detentions and deportations, and a nice, fat profit for Department of Homeland Security contractors. It has had just about zero effect on the number of immigrants coming into the country, largely because the incentives for them to come here have been left untouched.

But the picture is reversed when you look at the enforcement of American workplace laws. While spending on immigration enforcement has gone through the roof, the resources allocated to enforcing overtime, minimum wage, workplace safety and other protections for workers have been cut and cut again.

There is anarchy in America, there is lawlessness, but you'll find a lot more of it in the kitchen of your favorite diner or on that gardening crew cutting your lawn, for example, than along the Rio Grande.

Consider the numbers. According to research conducted by NYU's Brennan Center for Justice (PDF), the number of workplaces that fell within the jurisdiction of the Department of Labor's wage and hour division more than doubled between 1975 and 2004, and the number of workers in those establishments increased by 55 percent. But during that period, the number of inspectors available to enforce basic labor standards declined by 14 percent, and the number of "compliance actions" the agency completed plummeted by more than a third.


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Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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Supply-side
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 1, 2008 1:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a bit more here.

JH

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ya think?
Posted by: kepstein7777 on May 1, 2008 4:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Alternet finally fixes these articles some time next week, this one probably won't matter, because the headline says it all. You won't win the debate, but at least you'll be spot-on.

Here in America, we like to kick people who are down. And by "we", I include many of those who, ironically, are down there themselves--in this case, a lot of anti-immigrant rednecks.

In that context, the "debate" is not really how to solve the immigration problem--which this article does in two sentences--but who to kick. And you can bet your cojones it will be some poor amigo caught in the middle of it, rather than the people behind it, or the people getting rich from it.

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» RE: Ya think? Posted by: Paul1939
Industries slave labor
Posted by: Purple Girl on May 1, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've worked in the Horse industry for years. I had to compete not on the basis of my skill & knowledge with illegal workers- but how badly I was willing to be treated. Granted I have seen employers who treat all their employee well- bu ttha tis the execption to the 'rule'. also the 'live stock ' industry is not for those who only want to work from 8-5, M-F. Wrong industry, Wrong Mind set. animals require committment.
However when the humans health, welfare and living conditions rank 2nd to the animals- something is seriously wrong.This type of work requires a great deal of dedication, long hours and late night responsiblities. But when employers fail to respect what an employee has already given to the care of the animals (their Product) and beings using them in every other manner they may need (including as Domestic servants) one must ask who is truely the criminal? I have seen illegals paid dirt wages,provided inadequate housing, worked weeks without time off, not provided transportation to even get food, not assisted in health care issues (told to see Me for care-I was told to give a tetanus injection to an American Developemental disabled worker- I flately refused!)The AG business must be held responisble for their treatment of Workers regardless of origin, mental ability and legal status. I did not leave because Teh illegal under cut my job- I left becasue I refuse to be treated like they were treating these 'caught between a rock & a hard place' employees (Indentured Slaves). WE need anyone who has the dedication to work in AG, but we can not allow employers to exploit them.there ae far too few willing to do such work these days. I love Ag Work, and hope to start my own little biz- but my goal is to appreciate all those who are willing to do such a difficult and strenuous Profession with great working conditions and a living wage. Real heart is Priceless!

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Good News: U.S. Hispanic Population Surpasses 45 Million
Posted by: Mexitli on May 1, 2008 5:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We now make up 15% of the U.S. population.

Still, there are many things that bother me. Obviously, most of us "Hispanics" are MEXICANS.

But most Mexicans havent had a Spanish ancestor in 200, 300, 400 or even 500 years. Most of us have never had any Spanish ancestor, period.

That's why we look like Pedro the dishwasher, yet we face the humiliation of being labled Hispanic and or Latino. These are unwanted labels.

What we are is Mexica, Maya, Zapotec, Mixtec and numerous other INDIGENOUS peoples.

Now that that's out of the way, my next point is that in the U.S. there are too many laws.

American workers are treated like children. There is no right of contract between employer and employee.

The small businessman/ contractor has little chance of competing if he uses American workers.

They aren't as productive and want high wages.

You have to be worth your salt. American workers are lackadaisical, uninterested and like to chew the fat.

That fat is MY food. I've been in construction all my life. I've been a heating and air conditioning since 1992. I'm 48. Chicano.

Mexicans work harder. Mexicans are more productive.

We need more Mexicanos :)

It's good for the economy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Get off Mextli Posted by: pfeifer999
» No Taxes? Posted by: Mexitli
» A Red-Neck Responds Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: A Red-Neck Responds Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: A Red-Neck Responds Posted by: e rice
» RE: A Red-Neck Responds Posted by: outsideagitator
» Funny how at Posted by: Mexitli
» I am in my own home Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I am in my own home Posted by: desidid
Let's STOP the Conflation. It's not Honest.
Posted by: Phred42 on May 1, 2008 5:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This discussion will remain as dishonest as anything the Reich can put out if we continue with this BS tactic of conflating legal immigration with illegal invasion or as best: criminal trespass.

"IMMIGRATION" is a legally defined process.

If you successfully go through that process, and you are in this country based on completing that process, you are an immigrant. If you DO NOT go through and successfully complete that legally defined process, and you are in this country, you are NOT an Immigrant. You are either a tourist (which has it's own legally defined set of parameters) or a Criminal. You do not get to Steal a Citizenship. And Americans Do not OWE you a living.

No one gets to move to this country simply because they want to. Any sovereign Nation has the right and obligation to determine who enters and resides within it's borders. There is no global RIGHT to citizenship in America.

If your intent is to completely remove boarders than have THAT discussion - openly.

Stop conflating Immigration with criminal activity. They ain't the same thing.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Let's see
Posted by: chlamor on May 1, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We" stole half of Mexico by armed force -- the nice parts with rich deposits of gold and silver (and, as it turned out, oil -- though "we" didn't actually recognize that at the time.)

"We" made sure that "our" influence over Latin America was such that wealth would be steadily transferred from their countries to ours. "We" sent the Marines to Nicaragua, Haiti, & Guatemala often enough to insure that life in those countries would be a permanent living hell for most of the inhabitants. "We" imposed military dictatorships in almost every Central & South American country, stunting the aspirations of their people, & imposing conditions from which some of those countries will never recover. (So if some of the people want to escape from the living conditions in those countries, "we" had very much to do with creating those conditions.)

Interestingly, "we" started doing all this at the same time that "we" were exterminating the indigenous people here, AND using black slaves from Africa. What a loveable, righteous people "we" are, here in the "Land of the Free"!!

To read between the lines of today's American media treatment of the issue, the real "controversy" today is not between decent humane treatment for immigrants; and harassment by racists, vigilantes, and police. It's between two factions of rightwing opinion: should immigrants be exploited for their cheap labor (and their delightful inability to defend themselves), or should racism and xenophobia be pandered to, by encouraging nutcases like the Minutemen, and other "red blooded Amurrikans" who think it's exciting to organize mobs to defend white supremacy? This is a serious "issue" for people like Bush, who is doubtless torn, & genuinely sympathetic to both sides.

"We" came here somewhere in the early 1600s. "We" found this Promised Land, rich beyond imagination with fresh water and fertile earth and abundant game and timber for the felling. And to "our" further delight, it was largely uninhabited--if "we" didn't count the Red Ones.

"We" didn't see too many of them at first; they avoided our noise and the smoke from our fires, which were always too big. But soon enough, "we" were here in such numbers that they couldn't go around us anymore.

"We" were shocked--SHOCKED, I tell ya--that there were Savages in "our" Promised Land! So "we" set about exterminating them. "We" killed them whenever "we" saw them, "we" drove them from their land and their homes, "we" slaughtered their food supply and left the buffalo bodies to rot in the sun by the hundreds of acres. "We" gave them blankets full of smallpox, murdered their children and raped their women before "we" murdered them as well. "We" rounded them up into concentration camps and ate their food while they starved. "We" made them cut their hair, wear britches and beat them to death if they wouldn't speak "our" language.

"We" stole a whole fucking continent from them and paid them in Genocide.

And now "we're" worried about Illegal Immigration?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Let's see Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Let's see Posted by: chlamor
» RE: Let's see Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Hey, Knucklehead... Posted by: robbie.seal
» RE: Hey, Knucklehead... Posted by: chlamor
» What is a propaganist? Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» Clap! Clap! Clap! Posted by: sophia68
» 'We' didnt do that Posted by: cyr3n
» RE: 'We' didnt do that Posted by: chlamor
» RE: Let's see Posted by: trewqwert
» Chlamor is completely right! Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» You are sooooo right!!!! Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: You are sooooo right!!!! Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: You are sooooo right!!!! Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: You are sooooo right!!!! Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: You are sooooo right!!!! Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» To Illiteratilumen................ Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» the Mohawk policy on immigration Posted by: pfeifer999
» To pfeifer999.................. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: To pfeifer999.................. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: To pfeifer999.................. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
» RE: Let's see Posted by: desidid
Food Prices
Posted by: dockboy on May 1, 2008 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you think food prices are high now, wait until you have to start paying illegals minimum wage, per this article's solution.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Food Prices Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Food Prices Posted by: desidid
» RE: Food Prices Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Food Prices Posted by: antiapathy
until america can really own it racist ways......
Posted by: The Big Raven on May 1, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are doomed!
You can not build anything lasting on stolen foundations, even if you can get the majority of humans to bury thier colective heads in the sands of made up history. The new war cry is "NO MORE OF THIS MASTER WHITE RACE BULLSHIT"
To even have jobs that encourage people to come here without invitation and then put them down for wanting to better thier lives is perverves to say the least.
I wish that people would stay in thier own lands (not the lands they have claimed by some god ie:MANFESTED DESTINY)and solve thier own problems. We all deserve a homeland but not on the backs of others.
You have a peace filled day

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» To The big Raven. Posted by: oceanwaves99999
Don't deflect the Illegal Alien Issue
Posted by: HBoyer on May 1, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Illegal Aliens cost tax payers billions of dollars every year. Business reap billions of dollars from hiring Illegal Aliens.

The greedy rich will always want slave or peasant labor. They have had it for thousands of years and will find ways to keep dirt cheap labor and servants.

In America it started with indebted servants, the wealthy paying passage for poor people to come to America and then work as servants for many years.

Then even cheaper workers came along, slaves from Africa. The rich and greedy had a wonderful time in America.

Then in the sixties Civil rights came along.

No more cheap servants for the rich and greedy.

But look south! Mexico still has servants. 50% of Mexico lives in poverty.

Now USA has 20 million Illegal Aliens, the government and two political parties will never prosecute the rich and greedy for working Illegal Alien peasants.

So expel the Illegal Aliens and the rich and greedy will revolt and change American into a Fascist STATE.

Hey we are almost there now.

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Great article. I've been saying the same thing for years.
Posted by: antiapathy on May 1, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not that my congressman or anybody who could do something about it ever listens...

One thing I've always wondered about are the "legal" jobs that are exempt from the minimum wage. Mostly agricultural jobs, I believe. How is that even possible, and why do we permit it?

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Immigration Issue is About Increasing US Population to 500M
Posted by: jyork on May 1, 2008 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..... Increasing US Population to 500 Million....

Before illegal immigration there was another truth: the US population was dropping. It was dropping significantly. Once the replacement rate goes beneath 2.1 (babies born to a woman) then the population drops. And as that replacement rate itself drops to, say, 1.8 or 1.6, then the overall population really drops quite quickly.

That same measure of population replacement has been dropping in Japan, all of Europe, and the western world.

It would mean that in 25 years the population of all of Europe would drop by at least 100 million and in the US by about 75 million as well or more. The start off point for measuring this would have been a 200 million US population (before all illegal immigration had started at the rate it has been going) and then measure downward from that point. The US stands now at around 300 million and gaining quickly on the goal of 500 million.

The plan was not to allow this happen. You can easily imagine what a US population of 150 million in 2025 would mean to overall US economic dominance. And the same for a European drop of at least 100 million.

To offset this, the government along with mega-corporate-America put into practice the illegal immigration of millions of people. In our case those people come from south of our border, and in Europe's case they come predominantly from Islamic immigration (also illegal). The last major immigration event happened around the turn of the century (early 1900's) where the US just allowed about 65 million people to immigrate into the US from Europe. At that time, it was the largest single immigration movement of people in all of history. It was done then to increase the market for products in the US.

Illegal immigration has to be "illegal" because were it "legal" it would be a stated government policy. Keeping it un-stated and under wraps meant that the policy had to involve "illegal" immigration. It is happening both here and in Europe. Not being able to control the borders of a country is a deliberate plan, not an accident and not incompetance.

To verify this for yourself read the book called: "Fewer" by Ben Wattenberg who is a population demographer.

To maintain US and European economic superiority it was necessary to increase the US population to 500 million in the next 25-35 years. We are well on the way to accomplishing this.

Surrounding this plan is a wide variety of media-junk-issues which derail anyone's ability to think clearly and to see what the underlying plan is actually about. The goal of this plan is to create a "condition on the ground" that cannot be reversed.

You will have to decide what having 500 million people in the US means... to highways, total automobiles on the road, to social services, to health care costs, to interest paid on credit cards and mortgages, and all the other huge impacts there will be to doubling the population of the US (and Europe as well). The impact on the environment and on living conditions is enormous. Doing this is a very big event.

Illegal immigration is not about anything, anything at all, that appears in the media including Alternet. While all of those issues are relevant to various people, those issues do not address the overall or bigger issue which is the planned goal of increasing the US population to 500 million in the next 25 to 35 years.

There is not necessarily anything wrong with doing this except that it is done in secrecy. That is what makes it wrong. The citizens of a country should decide this issue openly. Were it an open discussion, and a choice put to citizen voters, I think you can easily imagine the outcome.

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» Exceptional post Posted by: Mexitli
» right on the issue Posted by: pfeifer999
» Comment On The Dark Side Posted by: jyork
» RE: right on the issue Posted by: Spot
» RE: right on the issue Posted by: oceanwaves99999
Holland is an elitist.
Posted by: HughScott on May 1, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Josh ends his pot-stirring piece with the following nose-in-the-air, high & mighty statement:

"The best they [anti-illegal immigrant proponents] could offer is the promise that every citizen who is sufficiently desperate to take a crappy, strenuous or demeaning job that pays a poverty wage will be able to find one."

Assume Holland is right about people "sufficiently desperate to take a crappy, strenuous or demeaning job that pays a poverty wage."

Why do such jobs pay poverty wages? Could it be there are enough illegal aliens crossing our southern border to fill the demand? After all, someone has to clean toilets in our society.

So tell me,Josh, why can't every American be paid a decent wage?

Because of greedy employers who hire desperate illegal aliens. It's that simple.

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» Hughe Scott is an elitist. Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Adding ... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Reread the article Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I'll settle this Posted by: Illiteratilumen
Don't forget about the ILLEGAL Cubans. They're given "free" statuses regardless.
Posted by: maxpayne on May 1, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You'll notice a glaring difference in Florida. If the immigrant is Haitian, unless he or she is in for a slave labor job, they're over-scrutinized and sent back. Cuban immigrants on the other hand, 70% of which enter the state ILLEGALLY, are automatically given "legal" status no matter how badly they disqualify. Of course, this is probably designed to keep the so-called "anti-Castro anger" vote simmering all the while the pols and business/monied elites keep laughing their way to the bank. As a matter of fact, my former roommate's wife who used to live in Northern Florida gave a report of the way the rednecks who scream "commies, commies" and yet they don't mind losing their jobs to ILLEGALS, most of whom are Cuban.

P.S.: Don't be surprised when Cuban immigrants throughout Florida stay completely silent even as the other immigrants protest.

Also, I'm not referring to Cuban immigrants who actually came here legally and followed the rules like everyone else.

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Send it to Ralph Nader..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on May 1, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I may send mine or some of it to Ralph Nader then thank The White House and Congress for enabling me to do so..!

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Everyone Else Can't Live Here
Posted by: Brez on May 1, 2008 9:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not about Latinos. It's about jobs, whether they are being taken by Latins, Asians, Indians, Canadians, or any other group of less fortunates, they should go to American citizens or legal immigrants. Make it a felony to employ illegal aliens and watch things change. Reserve services for citizens and LEGAL visitors and watch things change. We don't have to criminalize illegals - they will go home, then they can fix their own country. We can even provide bus or airplane tickets on request.

As far as idiots like Joe Baca and his bunch of racist Congressmen, has anyone pointed out that the people hurt most by illegal immigration are the LEGAL immigrants trying to get a start, as well as the poor, the young, and especially the minorities? Not that facts and logic would do any good to those politicians who pander to whatever base they think will keep them in their cushy jobs.

There are no jobs Americans won't do. Who do you think hauls off your garbage? And for a living wage, too! If we didn't have illegals driving down entry level wages, maybe the Republicans who are sucessfully turning America into a two-class society would have to pay a proper (at least a minimum) wage. Yeah, your lettuce might cost a quarter more - too bad.

And as far as all the Pollyannas and Popes who want us to be "charitable," we are already the most liberal, welcoming, open country in the world. Just try immigrating to Japan. The god-botherers need to practice religion, not politics. After all, wasn't it those Right Wing Christian Crazies (as opposed to non-crazy Christians, ie. Democrats) that got Bush & the neocons elected?

Rant ends.

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» RE: veryone Else Can't Live Here Posted by: constantreader
American elitism
Posted by: pennywatkins on May 1, 2008 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Righton! Talking about "illegal immigrants" is an obfuscation that prevents dialog about the real issues behind the immigration "problem."

1. As other commentators have noted, America's economic success has, from the beginning, required exploitation of people we view as "inferior"--Native Americans and African slaves are the most salient examples. We cannot maintain our lifestyle without exploiting other people. If we paid a fair and livable wage to everyone who produces goods or provides services that we use, we would not be able to afford those goods and services.

2. The idea that we "need" illegal immigrants to do the work that Americans won't do is incredibly elitist. We Americans honestly believe we are better than other people. We believe we have the inherent right to choose work that we enjoy or work that fulfills us. We feel we have the right to reject crappy jobs simply because they are crappy. The assumption behind that rejection is that someone else--someone less deserving than us--will do that work.

3. There is the issue of a "fair and livable wage." And minimum wage is not a livable wage. We exploit American workers, too.

Our current reality is a rapidly changing global economy where roughly half the population live in extreme poverty, where there are food riots and where large groups of people migrate from one country to another to find food, water and work. That reality does not support American hubris and it does not support the acquisitive American lifestyle. We could wake up to that reality, humble ourselves and join the rest of humanity. We could choose to moderate our lifestyle, do work that other humans do and work to ensure that all humans have basic necessities.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely that we will. The rest of the world will not allow us to continue to exploit it for very much longer. Already, our economy is collapsing under the weight of our greed in the housing market. Whether we choose it or not, we will join the rest of humanity. We will be forced to moderate our lifestyles until they resemble those of our 3rd world sisters. And we will be forced to take crappy jobs in order to keep body and soul together--just like everybody else.

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Plight of the working man
Posted by: willymack on May 1, 2008 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The immigration issue is, as is true of many other issues, a complex one, but with one overriding source, and that's GREED. Allow me to explain. I live only a block from farm property. Most of the time, alphalfa hay is grown there, but sometimes red wheat, potatoes (the best in the world), and even sugar beets. I take my dog there so he can run free and terrorize the ducks in the irrigation ditch, and dig up gophers, which he eats. I often encounter a man I've seen there for about nine years, doing farm work. He's Mexican and knows a little English, and I have a (very) limited knowlege of Spanish. Together, we can make ourselves understood. One day, upon seeing this man, I greeted him with "buenas tardes" he replied in like manner, to which I said "como se esta, hoy?". He replied something like "oh, cada dia, mucho trabajo, poco dinero. Cada ano, el dinero es lo mismo" (I didn't claim to be an expert on Spanish, rememember?) I asked "se tiene una carta verde?, to which he emphatically said "no carta verde"! No green card. He said it as if I asked him if he had the plague. I then asked "Quantos anos se aqui?", to whish he replied "viente dos". Twenty two years! Twenty two years without a green card, during which time he could've been rounded up and deported. Twenty two years away from family and friends in Oaxaca state, freezing his ass off in the harsh high desert climate here, having made the heartbreaking decision to forsake a normal home life for the sake of his family. How can anyone not like a man of such integrity and devotion, not to mention a sunny disposition and a great sense of humor? How can anyone overlook the all-consuming greed of those who take advantage of the plight of so many people whose only desire is to get out of life what we ALL want? The point of attack should be at the employers who exploit these unfortunates, not the workers, themselves.

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» RE: Plight of the working man Posted by: richholland
NAFTA? Free Trade?
Posted by: CatDad on May 1, 2008 9:39 AM   
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The flood of illegals is a direct result decimation of the Mexico's agricultural sector by NAFTA....Free trade deals are always catastrophic for the indigenous agriculture sectors of 2nd/3rd world nations..... Mexicans are in a unique position to literally walk away from the problem....You can't blame the displaced Mexicans any more than you can blame the Okies for fleeing the dust bowl for California in the 30s....People want to live and provide food/shelter for themselves and their family.....

Faux populists like Lou Dobss provide a smoke screen for the nation's ruling elite....It's blame the victims (read: Mexican's)....Until the trade issue is addressed...this problem will never be solved

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» Thanks CatDad Posted by: marid
Agree with the focus - differ on the methods
Posted by: NthnBrazil on May 1, 2008 9:47 AM   
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I think focusing on the demand side of the equation for a change is exactly what we need to do, but I'd rather see enforcement as the main tactic. If it becomes economically untenable to hire undocumented workers due to better tracking of bogus/re-used SSN's and punitive fines on employers, the problem will resolve itself.

The side-effect of this is that prices will rise on some food and food service due to increased labor costs and farms/restaurants that can't function in that new economic regime will fold. While unforunate, it is unavoidable in either case once the low-cost labor force is removed either by enforcement or organized labor.

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» What is "the problem"? Posted by: Rune
Is illegal the best way to think about this?
Posted by: emhaas on May 1, 2008 10:09 AM   
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Joshua,

Great and necessary article!
This is a difficult topic for progressives and I wonder if changing from "illegal immigrants" to "illegal jobs" or "illegal employers" is enough of a change? Are we not still in an illegal, law and order frame, which puts security ahead of worker protection and empowerment and the concepts of shared prosperity?

It's a tough question.
I examined this in a paper for the Rockridge Institute, called "To Respect and Protect: Expanding the Discourse on Immigration." Here's a link (http://tinyurl.com/57lhyt)

From a framing perspective, I think we need to include employer sanctions as key part of a larger network of worker protections that lead to livable jobs, but think the frame should be put at a higher level to "shared prosperity" because "illegal" even when it is linked to employers keeps us in the "security against criminal activity--force is the response" frame.


Eric

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All sides seem to assume that North-South stratification of poverty is akin to a law of nature
Posted by: Rune on May 1, 2008 11:05 AM   
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Permeating this entire discussion is an unexamined notion that institutionalized disparities of wealth and wages south of the U.S. border is a given. Some talk of making the differences a little less sharp, others refuse to do anything to change the situation. But I am not seeing anyone consider that there is no good reason for keeping people in Latin America strikingly poorer and less well educated (although northern disinvestment in education is closing that gap) than their neighbors in the U.S. and Canada. That is unfortunate because it is the institutionalization of that wealth, wage, and education gap that is at the heart of the problems being discussed and, thus, a key component of any genuine solution to those problems.

Just a thought. . . .

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