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Rudy: Worse Than Bush?

By Jon Wiener, TheNation.com. Posted August 1, 2007.


How much worse a president would Rudy Giuliani be than George W. Bush? Novelist Kevin Baker counts the ways.
08012007story
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In recent polls, Rudy Giuliani leads his rivals in the Republican primary race by about ten points. That's surprising, since he's been a supporter of gay rights, abortion rights and immigrant rights as well as gun control. It suggests that a President Giuliani would be better than Bush. I asked Kevin Baker -- he's author of the well-known City of Fire trilogy of novels about New York City -- Strivers Row, Dreamland and Paradise Alley. He also writes for the New York Times, Washington Post, and Harper's, where his essay, "A Fate Worse Than Bush," leads the magazine's August issue.

Giuliani's main claim to fame is his conduct immediately after 9/11. Many still remember his TV press conference the night of the attacks, when a reporter asked how many casualties there would be. Giuliani had a magnificent answer: "More than we can bear." Compared to what President Bush was saying, that was Shakespeare.

But what about the rest of his performance around 9/11?

"Most of 9-11 was actually a debacle for the city government," Baker told me in an interview, and "Giuliani bears a great deal of the responsibility." The World Trade Center had been attacked in 1993, but Giuliani had "learned none of the lessons that could have been learned. There was no serious attempt to coordinate the radios between the police and fire departments, or even to insure that the fire department had its own communications that would work inside buildings." The consequences? "Probably hundreds of unnecessary deaths that day."

The second failure: Giuliani insisted on locating his emergency control center in the World Trade Center complex, even though that had been the target of the 1993 attack. "He did that against the advice of virtually all the security experts he consulted," Baker explained. "He put it on the twenty-third floor of a forty-seven-story building, World Trade Center Tower 7. It included an unprotected, 7,000 gallon fuel source on the seventh floor, a sort of a fuse to set the building off. When the building was hit by debris on 9/11, that did indeed bring the whole building down."

What if Giuliani he had been in his new command center on 9/11?

"He was within a few minutes of dying right there that day," Baker said. "Instead he ended up having to spend most of the 102 minutes between when the first plane hit and when the second tower came down simply walking around the area with staff members, looking for someplace to set up a new command center."

What should he have been doing?

"Other things badly needed to be done," Baker said. "Realizing there was no communicating with the firemen who were in these towers, maybe they could have set up a trail of runners or something to tell them they should get out of there, the towers are coming down. Nothing like that was done."

Giuliani told the 9/11 Commission that the firemen in the towers died because they refused orders to come out. He said they wanted to save lives of people trapped inside.

"That's a demonstrable lie," Baker told me. "The firemen in the buildings were simply waiting for orders. They never got the word. It's easy to second-guess people in such a traumatic event, and anybody could be forgiven for not making the right decisions in the middle of everything. But to go to Congress months later and lie about this -- I find that despicable."


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See more stories tagged with: presidential candidate, president, rudy giuliani

Jon Wiener is a history professor at the University of California, Irvine. His most recent book is Historians in Trouble: Plagiarism, Fraud and Politics in the Ivory Tower (New Press).

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Selling false hope like some new dope we're addicted to...
Posted by: ericthefool on Aug 1, 2007 12:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we don't need is a two-timing, war mongering, lying piece of trash, neo-con like Rudy. If Rudy is elected, I will gladly leave this country and watch its implosion from across the ocean. But then again, there isn't much to choose from...do I choose a neo-con globalist or a CFR trash elite?

I'm stumped...and while all you people playing the bipartisan bs like who's cleavage is bigger, or who's hair is prettier, or who's poo don't stink the worst....this country is being sold down the river by trash we call Government.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I already left Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: . I already left Posted by: aurora2484
Homeless,vagrants cleansing
Posted by: orion0s on Aug 1, 2007 1:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When a friend of mine did explain to me the origen of distant
cries and pleading,that it was the secret police throwing
to the sharks the mental ill,the vagrants etc in Barranquilla
Colombia I did not believe untill I saw it with my eyes
risking the neck in the proccess.
Do not believe me.but friends swear they saw the same in New
York under Gulliani.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Rudy For President!!!
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 1, 2007 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was just kidding. The fact that he is, at this writing, ten points ahead of the competition is proof that 2008 is going to be a Democratic year. Is that good news? Maybe yes, maybe no. If the Democratics are stupid enough to nominate Hillary Clinton (and that, sadly, seems to be the case), we'd better hope and pray that Rudy is the GOP's standard bearer - he is the only one she will be able to beat.

One thing is for certain: The next year and a half will be a political junkie's dream.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Trudy for pez Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» RE: udy For President!!! Posted by: Conservasaurus
» No, it's true: Posted by: MadFlacc
» RE: udy For President!!! Posted by: drmflorida
» Future debate headline: Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: udy For President!!! Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: udy For President!!! Posted by: CatDad
Worst Case
Posted by: Urstrly on Aug 1, 2007 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article sums up what this New Yorker tells people every time they speak of Guiliani's "heroism". A few well-chosen words turned him into a wealthy man, but they in no way reflect a deeper wisdom. Up close he's as arrogant as Bush. It has been suggested that Guiliani's best hope is another terrorist attack in which people, ignorant of his folly, would turn to him as their protector. Any powers Bush/Cheney have grabbed would be equally dangerous in Rudy's hands. And why does no one mention that Judy Nathan, whom he has said would play an important role in his administration should he be elected, has strong ties to the drug industry?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» New Yorkers Know Rudy ... Posted by: BenCaxton12
» RE: New Yorkers Know Rudy ... Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: New Yorkers Know Rudy ... Posted by: JSquercia
» INCORRECT. Posted by: MadFlacc
» RE: New Yorkers Know Rudy ... Posted by: Conservasaurus
Bring on the FERRETS!
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Aug 1, 2007 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rudy is afraid of ferrets.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the man behind the curtain
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming on Aug 1, 2007 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does the name Bill Bratton ring any bells? As New York's police commissioner, he was responsible for many of the gains for which Guliani takes credit. Not exactly a shrinking violet himself, he managed to upstage RG, who promptly fired him despite--or perhaps because of--his success.

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» RE: the man behind the curtain Posted by: asilsfable
The lesser-evil crowd already at work
Posted by: DBachmozart on Aug 1, 2007 5:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here we go again - the next chapter in the long-running farce of lesser-evilism. The Democrats have gone out of their way to demonstrate to anyone with minimal gray matter between their ears that they, just as much as the Republicans are defenders of the Empire and all of our favorite lobbies, such as the militaryindustrial/pharmaceutical/oil and Israel. They can't possibly run on their own abysmal record of complicity - where was their threatened filibuster to oppose the Supreme Court nominations of Roberts and Alito - so it's time to demonize the Repubs. Every four years we are subjected to this rerun. Nixon in 1960 we were told, will attack Cuba, send troops to Vietnam and won't lift a finger in support of the Civil Rights movement. So we got Kennedy, who attacked Cuba, sent troops to Vietnam and ignored the racist violence until it became a worldwide embarrassment. Go down the list - from Goldwater in 1964 as the devil, and LBJ carries out his foreign policy to Clinton's genocidal sanctions against Iraq and bombings of Serbia. In 2004 we were told Anyone But Bush - in other words, lower our standards to the point of supporting a war hawk, as long as it wasn't Bush. All that accomplished was to disorient and destroy the growing antiwar movement. Will the left once again succumb?

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» Defeatism.... Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Defeatism.... Posted by: Thucy
» RE: Defeatism.... Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Defeatism.... Posted by: Thucy
» RE: Defeatism.... Posted by: CatDad
» RE: Defeatism.... Posted by: Thucy
Building 7 was a controlled demolition!
Posted by: futurefarm on Aug 1, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I appreciate the author's insight into the seemingly deliberate Giuliani failures on 911, it makes him look foolish to say that fire brought down building 7.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: what photos? Posted by: dover23
» RE: what photos? Posted by: EncinoM
» Riiiiight Posted by: YogiBear
» moon landing? what moon? Posted by: gretavo
It's hard to believe...
Posted by: custersbud on Aug 1, 2007 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that there could be someone worse than the piece of shit currently occupying the Oval Office, but Rudy is a whore mongering version of Bush with a mean streak a mile wide. Can you imagine Judith Nathan as America' First Lady? Of course by then she might be the ex-missus Rudy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: It's hard to believe... Posted by: zyxwvut
» Guiliani=Crnl. Klink Posted by: jbur816
Adolf Guiliani
Posted by: starhelix on Aug 1, 2007 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article misses the enormity of the rise of fascism here in this country. How many ways must it be said before people wake up and smell the treason? The 1993 attack on the WTC was a set-up operation to get Adolf elected. Mayor Dinkins had done a good job and deserved a second term. The media and Adolf plastered Mr. Dinkins with the "weak on crime" brush even though there was no evidence to prove this point. All the crime statistics were going down, but you'd never know it by the media and Rudy's mouth. There's ample evidence in the public record the 9/11 attacks were an inside job. There's evidence Adolf Guiliani had a lot to do with the coverup afterward. In fact, these monstrous crimes couldn't have been successful without Guiliani's help. He was an evil accomplice to the crimes. Why did Adolf try to hide the funds in the city budget for his alleged emergency "bunker?" There already was an emergency bunker at 1 Police Plaza, a few blocks from City Hall. Was it merely coincidence the bunker faced the WTC? No plane hit 7WTC where the bunker was. So, why did the building fall? No steel-framed building in history fell as a result of fire. Somehow we're suppposed to believe 1, 2 and 7WTC all fell due to fire. What's wrong with this picture? Adolf sealed off the crime scene and allowed the removal of the evidence. This was the greatest destruction of a crime scene in human history. It's clear from the gigantic dust clouds which arose from the WTC these structures didn't fall down. They were BLOWN UP! Also, the residual evidence would've proven the planes which flew into the WTC WERE NOT THE ORIGINAL HIJACKED PLANES! They came from another source and were flown by remote control. How do I know this? Frame-by-frame observation of the planes just before they entered each tower would show the jumbo jets each had a pod attached just under the wings. A pod is a military device used to attach various missiles and other ordnance to fighter planes. Just as the planes touched each tower, a missile fired out of each pod into the buildings. This was done because the impact wouldn't necessarily cause a fire. The perpetrators of the 9/11 crimes needed the fires as an excuse for blowing the buildings and the evidence up. And by the way, we know these weren't the hijacked planes because there's no evidence they lifted off that morning with pods attached to their fuselages. There simply wasn't enough time for the planes to land somewhere to have the pods attached. So, where did the pods come from? The only logical answer is: the planes which flew into the WTC couldn't have been the hijacked planes. This fact leads to the most important questions: If the WTC planes weren't the hijacked planes and no jumbo jet hit the Pentagon and there's no evidence an airliner crashed in Pennsylvania, then where were these planes hijacked TO? And what became of the people on board? In other words, we had the greatest crimes in modern history hidden right before our eyes. Images are worth more than thousands of words. And, of course, we were told a pack of lies about what we were actually seeing on that terrible morning. George W. Bush is only a proto-fascist but Adolf Guiliani is the real deal. Lil' Georgie wasn't in the loop on that fateful morning. He was told just to sit tight and all would be taken care of. He did so in that Florida classoom while the real enemies of our state, Darth Cheney and Adolf Guiliani, were fast at work perpetrating the biggest acts of treason in our nation's history. Is Guiliani worse than Bush? The answer is already available for those who wish to find it.

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» RE: Adolf Guiliani Posted by: bcain
» Nice Revisionist History WitchNy Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Adolf Guiliani Posted by: edgar_michel
» You know, I agree with you Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: the aliens did it Posted by: fox1
The infinite regress of Republican politicians
Posted by: ssegallmd on Aug 1, 2007 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With Nixon, we thought that we had seen eight years of the worst president that there had ever been or would ever see again. Then we met Mr. Reagan for eight more, and knew that we had been wrong. *That* was the worst presidency ever and the worst we'd ever see again. Then came the Bush spawn, and we were forced to recalibrate for the Republicans once again. Today, we say Chimpeachment is the worst ever and the worst possible. Been there.

What monster have those monsters concocted for us this time?

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» what's your beef? Posted by: gretavo
If George W. Bushit had been doing HIS job on 9/11
Posted by: Ellie1 on Aug 1, 2007 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
instead of being no where to be found, Rudy would have been only a blip in the 9/11 tragedy. Rudy was the only one available to the lazy media in this country, who needed any quotes to give to their editors, while Bush stared into space and sh-t in his pants, not knowing what to do. And he still doesn't.

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Fascist Leaders
Posted by: Maggieb on Aug 1, 2007 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It must be what they want because they aren't supporting Ron Paul or Mike Gravel. This forum is very disturbing to me. I've never seen so many uninformed faux news watchers post in one place.
Join the real Revolution with Ron Paul and DO SOMETHING!

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» Ron Paul is our only hope right now. Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: on Paul is our only hope right now. Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» I have googled Ron Paul Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: I have googled Ron Paul Posted by: Illiteratilumen
» RE: Fascist Leaders Posted by: StayAsleep
Sad commentary
Posted by: Democritus on Aug 1, 2007 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a sad commentary on our political process that we will likely see Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giuliani contending for the presidency in 2008. What that shows is that cash is king, and the corporate cash is flowing towards those whom it believes it can control.

Michael Moore's "Sicko" shows how Hillary veered to the right after she failed in her bid to reform health care. If she gets elected, you can kiss a single-payer health care plan goodbye, and you can say "hello" to increased privatization of whatever remains of our third-world health care system. If Giuliani were to get elected we would get even worse--perhaps another invasion to benefit "big oil."

Why are our journalists and pundits concerned with how much money Hillary, Rudy, or Barack are raising--or how much Edwards pays for his haircuts? Why aren't they publicizing the Conyers-Kucinich health care bill (HR 676) that would put everyone under Medicare? It's hard not to be cynical in seeing our media and our "pundits" as part of the same, corrupt political process that will offer us the choice of Clinton or Giuliani in 2008. Now that's what's really meant by a "Hobson's choice."

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Classic Rudy on CSPAN
Posted by: dover23 on Aug 1, 2007 7:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
explaining the carnage in NYC...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoGfhv80ii0

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Rudy cleaned up NYC, but does America need a police state?
Posted by: lamar on Aug 1, 2007 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rudy did a good job cleaning up New York City. But therein lies the rub. How did he do it? Basically, he brought in Disney and arrested everybody else. Anybody who gave cops the slightest pretext got arrested, booked, sometimes shot, etc. Squeegee-men? Gone (and good riddance. They did nothing but harass people). Street dealers? Gone (but delivery services semi-OK). Graffitti, smut, panhandling and public peeing gets you jail time (but skateboarding OK). Maybe that's what NYC needed (or maybe gentrification would have happened anyway).

Bringing in Disney and arresting everybody. Is that what we want in the White House? Perhaps NYC needed an enema, and Rudy was just the cocky asshole to do it. Rudy wants a police state, and his NYC record is exhibit one of that fact.

I can't stand it when GOPers cite his success in NYC as a reason to make him president. Are we going to make America better by arresting everybody? It isn't that Rudy has some positives and negatives. The problem I have is that Rudy's positives are his biggest negatives.

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BUSH & CHENEY HAVE CLEARED A PATH
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 1, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rudy and Romney both light up like Christmas trees at the thought of being in charge. They scare me the way Bush scared me. Rudy has a history of bad decisions and making believe nothing is wrong. That similarity is striking. He has no intention of turning things around. Too many people believe that things are swell just the way they are. There's nothing that can't be fixed by tightening the screws on people just a bit more. No thanks, ANNA

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Paul Cardwell
Posted by: Paul Cardwell on Aug 1, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When he first started that propaganda campaign claiming to be the hero of 9/11, I made the comment, "What did he do that any other mayor wouldn't have done under the same circumstances?" Later, I found something that would qualify - he betrayed the real heroes.

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» "organized with a response" Posted by: MadFlacc
» RE: Paul Cardwell Posted by: fox1
Rudy and George
Posted by: Schroeder on Aug 1, 2007 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rudy and George may well be the evil twins...is one worse than the other or would Rudy be worse than George? Their evil deeds are only determined by the opportunities which present themselves or which they can create (and get by with). Sadly, both permitted the WTC tragedy to be 'cleaned up' without a hint of investigation or evidence gathering. It seems to me that the only people who would do such a thing are those who know what happened. Rudy and George are both dangerous. Frighteningly so.

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Rudy=911
Posted by: WhuThe?!? on Aug 1, 2007 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
!!!!!!!!!!
They could have never pulled it off without his assistance!

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» RE:.Mayor Scoop & Dump Posted by: aurora2484
ANYONE VOTING REPUBLICAN NOW
Posted by: Roverton on Aug 1, 2007 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... is either profoundly stupid or evil.

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» My next door neighbors Posted by: Ellie1
» Or just.... Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Absolutely Unnecessary Comment. Posted by: grumble-bum
» Stop bringing your religion Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: ANYONE VOTING REPUBLICAN NOW Posted by: turbocrusher
fuel reserve brought WTC7 down?
Posted by: po cracka on Aug 1, 2007 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the first I've heard of it. where is Wiener's proof of that?
Nothing about it in the 9/11 Commision report. WTC7 came straight down, no 7th floor explosions on any of the ample video available. Sound like Wiener believes the Mickey Mouse mainstream version on the 9/11 incident, even padding it out for them.
Sure, Rudy is wicked. But Wiener was too easy on him. Nothing new or insightful in this writing by Wiener. This was a fluff/ filler article.

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Tell Giulian that Humans are not live bait for sharks. Pass it on!
Posted by: lc on Aug 1, 2007 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The post above talks about NYC and Giulian feeding humans to the harbor and rivers around NYC. This is my edited version but the original is posted above and below. Pass it on.
"When a friend of mine did explain to me the origin of distant
cries and pleadings; that it was the secret police throwing
to the sharks the mental ill, the vagrants etc in Barranquilla
Colombia, I did not believe it until I saw it with my own eyes
risking my neck in the process.
Do not believe me, but friends swear they saw the same in New York under Giuliani. " quote from a guy in Barranquilla.


I drove to Barranquilla in 1972 from Toledo Ohio in a VW Van. Barranquilla is a port city and one of the capitals of crime in S. America. We had something stolen from our van while encircled and keeping the thieves at bay. Even so they stole something and we chased them into the barrios and they lost us. I believe anything is capable in Barranquilla including “feeding mental ill and vagrants” to “sharks” in the bay. In 1972 it only cost $20 to hire someone for murder. A baby could be stolen for less. That was when cocaine was just taking off for export to the US. I can not imagine it has gotten any better. I have to believe this story and then I have to consider that New York City imported Barranquilla’s policy of “ethnic cleansing” that Giuliani carried out during his regime. Giuliani has no soul. He sold it to the GOP and for $$$ $$$ $$$. Even his family despises him. The rumors of Giuliani Gestapo tactics dumping NYC vagrants and homeless into the rivers around NY seems a commonly acceptable practice for a Mafioso Italian-American hypocrite like Giuliani. The Internet should not let this one die. Pass on the quote from the guy in Barranquilla. I edited it. The original follows my edit. Pass it on and have feedback sent back to Alternet. Anyone else out there with stories of Giuliani’s river detention policy dumping American citizens and aliens into New York rivers?

"When a friend of mine did explain to me the origin of distant
cries and pleadings; that it was the secret police throwing
to the sharks the mental ill, the vagrants etc in Barranquilla
Colombia, I did not believe it until I saw it with my own eyes
risking my neck in the process.
Do not believe me, but friends swear they saw the same in New York under Giuliani. " quote from a guy in Barranquilla.
IM
Belteshazzar

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Incompetent is the only word to describe
Posted by: Trazom on Aug 1, 2007 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The second failure: Giuliani insisted on locating his emergency control center in the World Trade Center complex, even though that had been the target of the 1993 attack. "He did that against the advice of virtually all the security experts he consulted," Baker explained. "He put it on the twenty-third floor of a forty-seven-story building, World Trade Center Tower 7. It included an unprotected, 7,000 gallon fuel source on the seventh floor, a sort of a fuse to set the building off. When the building was hit by debris on 9/11, that did indeed bring the whole building down."

No matter how you feel about the guy, this alone should prove his incompetence. Igoring the advice of virtually all experts and doing what you want to do, simply because you feel it is right and you have the power to do so? Now who on earth would do something like that? Nobody I know.

Furthermore, by not working to improve the radio-controlled communications between the police and fire departments after the 1993 bombing he demonstrated he is either out to lunch or ignorant of real problems. Where he should be put on trial for homicidal negligence, he is instead being heralded as New York's savior and is the front-runner in the Republican race to the White House. Ahh, what a country we have.

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One fascist is out,
Posted by: Nick on Aug 1, 2007 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ANOTHER IN!

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Rudy - Leadership - Leadership
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Aug 1, 2007 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, it's good to see an anti conservative article admit WTC 7 was taken down by the terror attacks and not some laser beam from outer space.. or little men running around cutting beams in the middle of the nite with no one noticing....

Second the point that the fireman were waiting for orders goes against every account I've ever read on the subject. Considering the chaos that ensured after the attacks, it's amazing that the death toll wasn't higher - to discount the efforts made by the first responders is typical liberal press!

Overall, I think Rudy did a great job of bringing together a city after a major attack like no one else could have done.. Rudy's leadership skills were evident and tested..and together with his vast experience running a major government organization he brings skills that NO DEM can match!

Hopefully, his moderate views appeal to a broad base and bring back many of the moderates fed up with Bush. It would be nice to see a different party altogether in the white house but those chances are slim.

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» RE: udy - Leadership - Leadership Posted by: drmflorida
» Here's a link Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Oh, and let's not forget.. Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Wet for Wiener Posted by: po cracka
If the Dems can't beat Giuliani we're in serious trouble
Posted by: CJC on Aug 1, 2007 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the Democrats can't beat the thrice-married Giuliani, who, among his many faults, announced to his second wife that he intended to divorce her at a press conference (what kind of "family value" is that??) then we're all in serious trouble.

The firefighters of NYC hate him for his incompetence and indifference that led to the deaths of hundreds on 9/11/01.

The utterly corrupt Bernie Kerik was his police commissioner and then he recommended him to the Bush administration to head Homeland Security.

And here's a recent but little publicized fact. Giuliani was appointed to the Iraq Study Group but then was formally dropped as a no show because he kept missing meetings. He was out on the road making tens of thousands of dollars per shot as a speaker. This is a recommendation for his resoluteness and public service?????

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» Hardly trouble Posted by: YogiBear
"Thank God George W. Bush is President"
Posted by: fanny666 on Aug 1, 2007 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Giuliani continues to claim that was what he said when the second plane hit the WTC tower.

Firefighters Union Letter Blasts Rudy Giuliani

It's Giuliani Time: the Mussolini of Manhattan The year before Giuliani took office, 720 people were arrested for misdemeanor marijuana-related offenses; by 2000, the number had jumped to 59,495--an increase of 4,549 percent.

Giuliani's priorities

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GARBAGE
Posted by: pappy on Aug 1, 2007 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A vote for Guiliani is a vote for Mussolini. He is garbage!The most hated man in NYC.

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