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Megachurches Court Cool to Attract Teens

By Courtney E. Martin, AlterNet. Posted August 8, 2006.


An evening at the New Life Church gives the author a clue to how evangelical right-wing Christians are attracting 'Generation Me.' PLUS: A video interview with the author.
Courtney Martin Interview -- flash

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Five suburban kids -- three boys, two girls -- sit at a circular table in a cafe eating gooey chocolate chip cookies and responding frequently to one another with the all-encompassing "totally." All of the signs of adolescence are there -- the pimples, the flirty giggles, and yes, the angst. One of the girls leaps up from the table and rushes off, shouting over her shoulder, "I just need some time to digest!" The remaining girl shrugs both her eyebrows and shoulders in the guys' direction coquettishly, then runs after her friend. The guys immediately bow their heads and begin praying like crazy.

Despite the cushy chairs and mainstream decor, this is not Starbucks. This is New Life Church -- some say the most politically influential site of evangelism in the nation. Kids come to this megachurch on the outskirts of northern Colorado Springs not only to be saved but also to sip mocha lattes. They come, sometimes in the thousands, to this megamall of worship to praise Jesus, not through quiet, mannered prayer, but through the gut-vibrating baseline of the three electric guitars that begin services. In the words of the lead singer, who sports flip flops with his white button-down shirt and gelled, hipster hair, the kids come because: "God, you are so awesome!"

God's "awesomeness" aside, I came here to understand what it is that churches like New Life are doing so successfully to appeal to teenagers. Generation Y (of which I am a part) is notorious for its dependence on nonhierarchical, virtual communities: music downloading sites, YouTube, Wikipedia and the big momma, MySpace. When it comes to the real world, we are largely apolitical, unorganized and skeptical of authority -- as evidenced from books like Robert Putnam's 2000 bestseller Bowling Alone and Jean Twenge's more recent Generation Me.

In dramatic contrast, the National Association of Evangelicals, whose 45,000 churches and 30 million believers make up the nation's most powerful religious lobbying group, continues to successfully recruit teenagers into its fold.

In this climate of isolation and cynicism, how have evangelical megachurches like New Life gained such a strong youth following? And more importantly, what can progressives -- feminists, democrats, civil rights defenders -- learn from their methodology? "The left" is looking a little winded, a little wrinkled and a lot in trouble if it doesn't figure out how to appeal to a youth accustomed to MTV, MP3s and incentives. After spending one long Sunday evening at the New Life Church, I had a better sense of how the evangelical right pulls it off.

The Christian rock band played about five songs, showered in red, white and pink state-of-the-art lighting and periodic rolling clouds from the fog machine. Teenagers knelt down, stood in the aisles with their hands raised and rocked out at the foot of the stage, singing along; the lyrics of each song were projected on three giant television screens. One young woman spontaneously choreographed some kind of contemporary praise dance off in a corner, mixing Twyla Tharp modern with the Harlem shake as the spirit moved her. The lights were very dim, as if to visually indicate to every insecure 14-year-old around that, for once, no one was watching or judging.

It makes perfect sense -- teenagers are naturally emotional, bent on constructing their own unique individuality and deathly afraid of being judged for both. The angsty lyrics and dramatic delivery mirrors their internal world, but the dark, to-each-their-own vibe is in direct contrast to the cruel, external world.

Eventually the music faded into a soundtrack as a young pastor took the stage and translated the idea of God's glory for his "American Idol" audience: "We ask that you would make God famous in our city." Worship Pastor Ross Parsley, in his boot-cut jeans, short strawberry blond hair with pronounced sideburns, delivered his sermon from a Smartphone, throwing in frequent references to Hollywood movies. In fact, over the course of his 30-minute sermon he compared God's glory to the red pill in "The Matrix," the ring in the "Lord of the Rings," and, yes, the lion in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe." God's wrath, he explains, is like the melting face in Indiana Jones.


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Courtney E. Martin's book, "Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters," will be published by Simon & Schuster's Free Press in April 2007.

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Reminds me of the USSR
Posted by: autonomie on Aug 8, 2006 12:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The photo on the alternet homepage showing a megacrazy church looks like communist architecture, designed to make individuals feel small and powerless.

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» RE: eminds me of the USSR Posted by: zorro
» Or the Greek Coliseum? Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: eminds me of the USSR Posted by: talkville
Mike Males
Posted by: mmales on Aug 8, 2006 1:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a disgusting article. The real "generation me" is the author and the ignorant, hackneyed prejudices about teenagers she carelessly indulges. In fact, today's young people are far more likely than youth of the past or their elders today to volunteer for community projects, to express progressive attitudes on major social issues, to engage in political activism, to accept racial integration unheard of in the past, and to suffer massive social disinvestment by older generations. With the usual rotten scholarship consisting of anecdotes and citations of pop-junk works like Putnam's, this author demonstrates once again how yuppie "culture war" frettings and prejudices have buried progressives' once-dynamic concern for real issues like the unconscionably high levels of poverty and disinvestment today's teens suffer as their elders have never been richer. Go through this article and substitute "Jew" or "black" or "woman" or "senior citizen" every time you see the word "teenager" and you'll see what I mean about its contemptuous, hateful tone. Not only do today's young people not deserve these condescending characterizations (from adults or self-superior peers), they represent the only realistic hope for progressive ideals to regain a footing in America's increasingly rightward-tilting politics. It is crucial that leftists adopt a more realistic view of the potential of the younger generation than to indulge incessant denigrations of the type that sound straight out of Newsweek or Fox News.

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» RE: Mike Males Posted by: hartnoecker
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: themom
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: karlis
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: sausage
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: lamar
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: Lathor
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: lamar
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: Kym525
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: themom
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: nakedaggression
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: cem1231
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: mmales
» RE: Mike Males Posted by: lamar
God is make believe.
Posted by: hartnoecker on Aug 8, 2006 1:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know how that first commenter could find this article hateful of teens, especially since the author looks likes she's about 17 herself. Sounds like a knee-jerk emotional reaction. I doubt very much if that commenter read the entire article or watched the accompanying video. Chrinst Incorporated is always trying to pimp their product, and reporting on that mindfucking is paramount to countering the Right's agenda with rational, tolerant thought and policy.

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» RE: God is make believe. Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: God is make believe. Posted by: tristansmum35
brainwashing
Posted by: rsaxto on Aug 8, 2006 3:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Megachurches are just brainwashing writ big just as Bush speaches are just brainwashing writ dumb.

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Brian
Posted by: bryzooga on Aug 8, 2006 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cool, god is hanging around waiting to wrestle with me. What a Guy, or girl... or figment of the imagination

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People don't need to be indoctrinated
Posted by: riffraff2001 on Aug 8, 2006 4:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both political parties, mega-churches, the NRA, etc. all rely on indoctrinating people to swell their ranks. Teens are exceptionally gullible, naive, and emotionally vulnerable, and so make perfect targets for all these groups. The problem is though that these groups are trying to make people conform to some over-arching philosophy of life, when we should all be trying to figure it out for ourselves. Sure, I've had rough times in my life where I didn't seem to have many people around to talk to or hang out with, but it never made me want to join a church, or a frat, or whatever. Because anything you get from a group like that is only in return for something else you would have to give them. I just can't believe that more people haven't figured out that being "cool" is actually the same thing as being someone else's bitch. In order for other "cool" people to consider you cool, you have to do something for them in return. I know teens just want to fit in somewhere, and they're willing to do just about anything to do that, but the reality is that there just really isn't a point to it.

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Time to rethink "religious freedom"
Posted by: Moonray on Aug 8, 2006 4:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America is drifting toward fascism largely because of the Religious Right and its antics as described in this article.

The U.S. badly needs a law that would protect children from indoctrination into any superstition-based belief system. This would not be unconstitutional. The First Amendment does not allow people to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, which in effect is what religion-peddlers are doing.

All Americans should demand such protective laws from their states and the federal government. They also should demand an end to the unfair and harmful tax exemptions enjoyed by religious organizations.

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» WE BADLY NEED ANOTHER LAW! Posted by: sirossisofliver
» RE: WE BADLY NEED ANOTHER LAW! Posted by: TagsNOLA
» Obviously, we have laws... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Obviously, we have laws... Posted by: symcokid
can you say "sun myung moon?"
Posted by: aislinnluv on Aug 8, 2006 5:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if this were 30 years ago, we would be sending hordes of deprogrammers to snatch these youths from the clutches of the evil brainwashers. today this same sort of crap that so alarmed our parents is so accepted that many of these so-called "congregations" have televised services. have you seen the commercials for kerry shook and his family band? their "church" is an arena where weekly they put on a bizarre freak show of chicanery complete with light shows and tricks worthy of david copperfield. his head is shaved and his three sons have fashionably longish locks, the better to appeal to their peers. once you get into his or any similar congregation, however, i suspect that the message is far from the love-your-neighbor dictum that jesus would be preaching. my ex takes our two kids to a similar church (a mega-baptist horror), where the pastor does tricky things like using popular rock music (evanescence, for one) to lull the kids into accepting what they hear. the messages, however, are more political and hate-filled, like the morning the pastor used the pulpit to exhort the followers (baaa, baaaa) to go forth and write their congress persons to make sure they would vote against the sin (!!!) of gay marriage. this didn't sit too well with my gay son and his sister. she quit attending, preferring not to hear the "hypocritical asshole" preaching (her words). he still attends with his father, more, i suspect, out of a need to at least see his dad than to hear the word of a god he wants to believe in tainted by deceitful and hypocritical tactics.

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» RE: let's tax religion Posted by: ccbite
» RE: let's tax religion, it' about time. Posted by: dangerouslysane
Just saying,
Posted by: owlbear1 on Aug 8, 2006 5:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
===============
One peek into a small part of the sky, one giant leap back in time. The Hubble telescope has provided mankind's deepest, most detailed visible view of the universe.

Representing a narrow "keyhole" view stretching to the visible horizon of the universe, the Hubble Deep Field image covers a speck of the sky only about the width of a dime 75 feet away. Though the field is a very small sample of the heavens, it is considered representative of the typical distribution of galaxies in space, because the universe, statistically, looks largely the same in all directions. Gazing into this small field, Hubble uncovered a bewildering assortment of at least 1,500galaxies at various stages of evolution.

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsdesk/
archive/releases/1996/01/
(combine for full URL)
=====================
An entity capable of creating that doesn't need worship.

Anybody tells you they will get special privledges for doing so is at best delusional, at worst arrogant.

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» RE: Just saying, Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: Just saying, Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Just saying, Posted by: morticia
» RE: Just saying, Posted by: morticia
» RE: Just saying, Posted by: excaliburtb1982
» RE: Just saying, Posted by: morticia
Jesus is Coming!
Posted by: marklar on Aug 8, 2006 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been warning anyone who'd listen about the Krazy Kristian Kult since Jimmy Carter started speaking in "christian code" in 1976. Thank JC - Jimmy Carter - he is the politician responsible for bringing this evangelical brand of fire breathing religious bigotry into our government and look what it got him. They jumped parties because a man more familiar with thier religious hypocracy and hatred of everything "wrong" with America became suddenly popular and made a deal with the Iranians to keep the hostages until after the elections - Reagan.
What do we do now? Not a Godamn thing. The Krazy Krisitan Kult is preparing for Jesus returning very soon and they plan on him being pissed off enough that blood will be flowing and crosses will be crushing the skulls of anyone who does not accept him as their lord dog and saviour or pennies.
as for Bush - he's the anti-Christ and Jesus will smite his smarmy stupid soul down to live with the sodomites in the lower tiers of the inferno.
But what if Hayzeus is really and illegal immigrant and when he comes all he wants is to water your lawn and trim your bushes for $5.00 an hour?
God Bless Armenia.

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» RE: Jesus is Coming! Posted by: aislinnluv
» Jesus is Coming! Look busy. Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: Best bumpersticker Posted by: morticia
» RE: Best bumpersticker Posted by: ccbite
» How about this one? Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Jesus is Coming! Posted by: Lunasol
» RE: Jesus is Coming! Posted by: marklar
» RE: Cathyc Posted by: morticia
» Hello MORTICA! Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Hello MORTICA! Posted by: morticia
The Amerikan 'Christian' Church(tm) and its precedent
Posted by: peachmcd on Aug 8, 2006 5:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When a movement purports to follow a leader who suffered and lived among the poor and marginalized his whole life, and was then crucified for being a threat to the religious authorities and the Roman state, it's surreal to see Sam Walton held up as godly. But the success of this perversion of Christianity isn't hard to understand.

By adopting corporate standards of success, marketing methods, and preaching corporate virtues (e.g., Walton's cut-throat competition rather than Christ's compassion), megachurches 'succeed' in filling their pews and padding their bottom lines. Those are the measures of success in a corporate setting, and by adopting those goals explicitly, the Amerikan Christian Church(tm) has 'succeeded'. Sadly, not at anything Christ considered important.

During the fascist wave of the last century, the German National Socialists needed to reassure the (mostly) sincere Lutheran people that their political program was also God's will. It did this by co-opting a majority of Lutheran pastors. It used the same methods this wave of corporate fascists is using - a combination of carrots (your church will grow and get funding!) and sticks (your church will be picketed and marginalized if you oppose us).

Corporate co-optation of government in the US has reached a logical conclusion in the current administration - Benito Mussolini described the true fascist government as the complete melding of corporation and state. The Amerikan 'Christian' Church(tm) is serving the same function in the 21st century that the German Christian Church served in the 20th.

In Germany, Christians of conscience went underground. Karl Barth led what he called 'The Confessing Church' in its critique and opposition to the perversion of Christianity that took over the churches. This time around, the Confessing Church is on the internet. CrossLeft is only one example.

Confessing Christian churches don't need to learn how to attract teens the way megachurches do. They just need to keep working on knowing and worshipping Jesus Christ, and walking in His ways of compassion, service, healing, and loving inclusion of children and the powerless.

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Lazy, Lazy
Posted by: wtac on Aug 8, 2006 5:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a lazy article. So one spends a couple of hours on one night at one church and can draw sweeping generalizations about an entire subculture? Any conclusions drawn from such "research" are entirely without merit...to what degree are they applicable across the subculture and to what degree are they specific to the context in which the observations were made? As a progressive and an evangelical (yes, there are a few of us), I am concerned by many of the things I have observed in the American church, but a lazy bit of "research" like this is of little help.

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» I was disappointed too Posted by: efjo
» RE: Your nonsense responsense Posted by: excaliburtb1982
» RE: Lazy, Lazy Posted by: cem1231
Jesus was cool, too
Posted by: rev.paul.d on Aug 8, 2006 5:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem is not "courting cool" to attract teenagers or anyone else. Jesus was pretty cool, too. The problem is that most of the megachurch movement has absolutely nothing to do with living the way Jesus lived or taught. As pastor of a small community church, this is the constant challenge--to attempt to show people what Jesus really said and how he really calls us to live. But our efforts are often being drowned out by the noise and images projected by the Christian right, who are selling political power and marketing a prosperity "Gospel" as the Christian way of life. It is truly hard for a church, movement, or individual Christians with limited resources to be heard in this environment. The truth is that Jesus does want you to humble yourself and learn to serve others, but that won't happen in a "cool" venue like the one described in this article. It will only happen when you reach out to the people around you every day and share your love with them. We just returned from a mission trip to New Orleans. It's hard to be "cool" living and working in sweltering heat with no power, but seeing real people doing their best to live under such conditions, and doing what we could to help them, might make a difference for both them and us.

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» RE: Jesus was cool, too Posted by: bmason
» RE: Jesus was cool, too Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Jesus was cool, too Posted by: Habaro
» Appropriate response. Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Mental status of Jesus of Nazareth Posted by: doctorsquared
» RE: Jesus was cool, too Posted by: SufiLizard
» RE: Jesus was cool, too Posted by: rev.paul.d
» RE: Jesus was cool, too Posted by: catplayedthefiddle
Huh?
Posted by: katsunderthestars on Aug 8, 2006 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What happened to teenagers questioning authority? These kids sound like the biggest dorks in their school.

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» RE: Huh? Posted by: bmason
» RE: Huh? Posted by: katsunderthestars
» RE: Huh? Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: Huh? Posted by: katsunderthestars
» RE: Huh? Posted by: rhinojos
» RE: Huh? Posted by: katsunderthestars
» RE: Huh? Posted by: Habaro
» RE: Huh? Posted by: marklar
SCARY
Posted by: dadanbetty on Aug 8, 2006 6:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SCARY

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Let's really be objective.
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 8, 2006 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Historically speaking,The Church has always had some slick spin campaign to get followers and probably always will.
In the Middle Ages it was 'True' relics and such. Which was a step up from outright torture which was employed before that.
The fact that the church took up the sword again when they got to the Americas is no accident either. There are a good many commentaries that testify to the fact that after missionary priests obtained conversion by American Indians, said convert was then burnt at the stake. All the while the priests would bray about how the victim's silence ment he was accepted into 'Heaven',all the while,in full knowledge, using the Indian belief that a True Warrior never cries out from torture. They had their version of the CIA then too.
The stadium rock show atmosphere the church uses now to aquire members is nothing more than an upgrade in marketing techniques.Plain and simple, they are Not-for-Profit business ventures that need to attain capital by any means necessary. Please don't misunderstand me, I believe it is important for people to have a recognition of an Energy Greater than themselevs, that's Responsible for All Taht Is. What you call that Energy is up to you.The fact that you Honor It,is what's important.
What's being done by today's church is high profile,high production value,extravaganzas designed to relieve you of your wallet's contents while leaving your Spiritual Content wanting from a constant barrage of 'Repent', 'Sinner' and 'God we're not worthy' Let me save your wallet AND your Spirit.
Firstly, The Creator accepts you as you are. Faults and all.
These are your learning tools,supplied by Love,no matter how hard of a lesson you choose to learn. So both begger and King are exactly equal, neither Superior nor Inferior, just something taking up space in Creation. But you are already accepted and worthy and given Eternal Life simply because That Which Made All That Is,is Itself, Eternal. As It is We and We are It,We are All Eternal.
All this happens without currency exchange,religious conversion,or fanatically blowing oneself up.
Wanna know Creation? Instead of buying a seat in a high priced stadium,purchacing the dashboard Icons and fish decals...go into a forest. To a high open space,a waterfall,or under the night sky. For a short while,forget everything that's made by humans and tune in to the Natural. You'll hear the Creator's voice loud and clear,and he won't be saying'Repent' or 'Sinner' or "You're unworthy'. Only the gentel Loving embrace of 'Welcome Home'.

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On being entertained
Posted by: mazur on Aug 8, 2006 7:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some Russian XIXc revolutionary once said -- "a person must be entertaining to oneself" (rough translation). Not "being entertained", but entertaining yourself -- and work is the best entertainment when choose it yourself and do it well.

Regarding USSR -- yes, that's it -- don't think too much, Lenin has it all.

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Hitler youth?
Posted by: eed017 on Aug 8, 2006 7:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like the indoctrination meetings and rallies of the Hitler-Jugend. And just as anti-semitic. While they profess to support Israel, it is only so that Israelis can be proxy soldiers for them in the Third Crusade.

Only a matter of time before they put up Army recruiting stations next to their Voter Registration booths.

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» RE: Hitler youth? Posted by: VannaLaRoche
What's the Point?
Posted by: mrsmagoo on Aug 8, 2006 8:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's the point of this article? That we should be afraid that our children will be "brainwashed" into evangelism and turn them into bible-thumping Republican religious rightwingers?! RELAX! 30 plus years ago in the 70's, I saw the same thing as a teenager. Rock-n-roll Jesus: swaying to the music, bus-loads of kids off to another conversion concert. Are you saved? buttons, etc., etc. I didn't become the above afore-mentioned bible thumping evangelical Republican far right supposed Christian. What happened to me will probably happen to many of these kids. It's just a passing phase, they will get over it and go on to live sane normal lives making sane normal decisions. It was 20 years before I started going to church again. The good thing about these mega-churches is that eventually what they use to hook you will be their own destruction. Teenagers and some of us adults have trouble focusing for any length of time. These mega-churches promote the gotta-have-it now and lure kids in with tools of distraction and distortion. I've seen this before. What will happen is that the seeds of being a good Christian will be planted, these youngsters will grow up and have families and some will even go to church again. This time something on a more family-oriented, pastoral church level. If some end up evangelical, so what?

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» RE: What's the Point? Posted by: DCostello
Barna Study
Posted by: NoPCZone on Aug 8, 2006 8:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fairly recent Barna study showed that active Evangelical youth (regulars in the Youth Group, etc) differed from their non-Evangelical peers in beliefs but conducted themselves in an almost identical way. They were as sexually active and all the rest as the 'heathen'. Their behavior was little different despite their beliefs. If you actually hold to a set of beliefs it will change your behavior. It's play church for easy believism.

Think about that for a minute. The young girl in the local youth group is about as likely to be giving her youth group boyfriend sex as their peers outside the church despite all of the sermonizing. The rate of homosexual experimentation among teens is probably as high (not from the study). The divorce rates inside the Evangelical church is as high , if not higher, than the general populace. If the truth was told, I contend that the abortion rate is probably higher in the Evangelical Church due to parents not allowing their kids access to birth control.

Behind the curtain the Evangelical Church is scared to death that the US is becoming as secularized as Western Europe and has adopted powerpoint, contemporary praise music, 15 minute sermonettes and all the rest to 'get this generation before it's too late'. They realize that very few are converted past the age of 30 and the majority before age 25.

The year before the Berlin Wall fell few realized what was about to happen on either side of the wall. It just looked as if the Cold War would go on for a very long time. What is obvious in retrospect wasn't very apparent until it was upon them.

The Evangelical Church is less than a generation from insignificance in American life as a political force. The conduct of people like Ralph Reed & others may very well hasten it. These people will turn on the Neo-Cons when they have had their eyes opened. I grew up in and around this. The wizard of Oz has little on most of these Mega-Churches.

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» RE: Barna Study Posted by: babs
» RE: Barna Study Posted by: lively56
» FEW REALIZED Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Barna Study Posted by: leftisright
Megachurches court cool to attract teens.....
Posted by: sidewinder on Aug 8, 2006 8:36 AM   
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It's no secret that most teens have their heads up their collective asses. Ditto for the author of this article. BTW, is this the best that AlterNet can do? I come here to be entertained and you've let me down.

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One will not find the Holy Spirit
Posted by: Kym525 on Aug 8, 2006 9:04 AM   
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Inside one of these shopping-mall type churches. There's little connection to other people if one is crammed wall to wall. Sure the music is great (maybe) and the message made hip and cool to say to the young, "hey being a christian is cool". However, it's when one leaves the megachurch where the real struggle to find a lasting faith begins, and where the magachurches ultimately fail. It's far too easy to talk of the 'silver ring thing' inside of a church, but a lot harder when few guy peers are willing to admit they're waiting until marriage. Also, can one truly find the Holy Spirit within a megachurch when examples of the greatness of God are everywhere we look - from the mountains to the miracle of a child smiling? As far as this gnostic christian is concerned, and as I was told many years ago by a rather savvy pastor, the church will not save you. Even one that huge.

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Awesome?!
Posted by: JDHorn on Aug 8, 2006 9:50 AM   
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If we were to be honest with ourselves as well as with God, we would have to concede that God hasn't done anything impressive for centuries for the simple reason that God hates us with a passion we can only dream of.
Admit it! We are a bunch of gormless bastards who believe the lies written about God in that load of old cobblers, The Holy Bible!
Does anyone remember Jim Morrison intoning, "cancel my subscription to the ressurection!?"

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» RE: Awesome?! Posted by: marklar
Note the undercover zealots rising!
Posted by: outsidea on Aug 8, 2006 9:52 AM   
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Great job Courtney! And you put up some good links for folks to look further at this situation.

I noted a lot of what I like to think of as undercover right wing evangelicals slipping in attempts to make it seem as if your article (and many other postings that criticize and disagree with right wing religious zealots of all types) is anti-religious and try to don the mantle of victimization by claiming your work is attacking all Christians.

They are religious trolls who are in coalition with with the neo-cons and right wing republicans.

Many of them are believers in Armageddon and the second coming of Christ and strong supporters of Israel and the current madness that has been unleashed on the Jordanians.

They think the rapture will be cool, cause they are not going to fry...

I love that bumper sticker which says "When the rapture comes, can I have your car?"

How cool is that?

Joseph

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The thing of it is...
Posted by: tobeimean on Aug 8, 2006 10:32 AM   
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It won't wash. The essence of cool, going back right to the jazz-musicians and hipsters that created "cool," has always been an alternative to the mainstream, and a creative flow. Cool always succeeds in escaping from the strictures of "mainstream" thinking, and certainly is about distancing from the norm. No matter how many clever slogans you add, or how you dress it up -- if it ain't creative and at least a little 'anti,' it ain't cool.

Joining in with an established group that gives you all the answers, and dictates that ways you should interact and present yourself will never be cool, anymore than say Hitler-Youth, or the Boy/Girl Scouts are cool. It's contradictory to the essence of the thing, and in the end -- the allure of "cool" will always undo the brainwash of organized societal forms. It's Cool's raisonne d'etre !

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» RE: The thing of it is... Posted by: mviscid
» RE: The thing of it is... Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Gulliver's Travels Posted by: BlueTigress
where are you going?
Posted by: daa4 on Aug 8, 2006 10:37 AM   
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Every generation is a me generation. It is very noticatable in teenagers and it is how this me concept is portrayed that is different between generations. This author is not short changing the generation she mentioned. She is acknowledging the me concept is being directed with religion. People want to escape the pressures of the me society and the do this with drugs, music, culture scenes, religion, etc.

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re: rifraff2001
Posted by: rollo on Aug 8, 2006 10:50 AM   
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God damn, man!

Well said.

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some are using odd methods of attraction
Posted by: ark on Aug 8, 2006 2:49 PM   
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Austin American-Statesman August 02, 2006
Great Hills Baptist Church official accused of sexually assaulting teen
Police say 15-year-old initially blamed three armed men before accusing Carver
By Claire Osborn

The minister of education at Austin's Great Hills Baptist Church has been accused by police of luring a 15-year-old boy into his car at a bus stop and sexually assaulting him.

Austin police said Jerry Dale Carver, 51, was arrested Monday at his home and charged with sexual assault of a child in connection with the July 25 incident. The second-degree felony carries a maximum punishment of 20 years in prison.

[. . .]

Carver's arrest marks the second time that a leader at the 5,000-member Northwest Austin church has been accused of sexually assaulting a teen. In 1999, youth minister Charles Richard "Rick" Willits was sentenced to 15 years in prison after a jury found him guilty of sexually abusing a 14-year-old boy he met at church. Willits is eligible for parole in April, according to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

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If anyone wants to understand the root of this Jesus nonsense
Posted by: marklar on Aug 8, 2006 3:11 PM   
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read the new book out about the Life of Jonathan Edwards - Americas first evangelical"
Jeez, it's been a month and I can't remember the author of exact title. But it will put everything into context with regard to todays christion nuttyhood

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the people's submission
Posted by: rtdrury on Aug 8, 2006 3:40 PM   
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The descriptions of topics in newlifegroups.com look familiar. And bewildering to anyone who values "people and planet". The American Christian doctrine supports Christianity first and foremost. There is little to no connection with economics, civics, cultures, or the Earth. There is acceptance, but little understanding or responsibility. The congregation acknowledges the importance of economics but maintains a disconnect such that any confronting the ethical problems in the system is without church support. I think this is a serious flaw. There is a similar disconnect with civics, cultures and the Earth. Regarding civic structure, world cultures, and the Earth, the congregation should "go with the flow" except when the church itself is threatened, e.g. by a potential rise of Islam. The congregation is largely unaware of its low-level contribution to various world problems due to material consumption and failure to participate in civics. Members who run big corporations, who engage other cultures in business, who deal with civic structures, and who make big decisions affecting the Earth are left in the lurch by the church. Little wonder why they end up causing much of the destruction of "people and planet". The church declines to acknowledge the value of "people and planet" but does pretend to value people who submit. In practice, the church values little more than the people's submission.

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From an old leftist....
Posted by: talkville on Aug 8, 2006 3:51 PM   
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You writeit yourself: "we are largely apolitical, unorganized and skeptical of authority--". Liberty, equality and fraternity are not found by looking for someone 'up above' to bring you the answers. Perhaps you could work toward organizing and politicizing your peers. The authority comes from your own democratically arrived at projects. Gotta hurry, since there's a 300 year old light that's flickering and becoming dimmer by the second!

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» RE: From an old leftist.... Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: From an old leftist.... Posted by: outsidea
Dangerous
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 8, 2006 3:54 PM   
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The biggest danger of these "evangelicals" is when they get too much political power and then things can get a bit rabid. GW Bush is a product of the Christian Right who has bought us much trouble. Some have pretty wacky ideas, including being supportive of Israel, not really because they like Jews, but because they think Israel is a precurrser to the "Armageddon" and somehow this is described in the Book of Revelation. Some think also they have to "convert" everybody, and if you want to see where this can go, just read about the Inquisition. The Mega Churches are mostly ripe opportunities for a few smart busi