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Rights and Liberties

Anti-Gay Movement of Immigrant Fundamentalist Christians Threatens Western States

By Casey Sanchez, Intelligence Report. Posted October 5, 2007.


Russian-speaking Christian fundamentalists, mostly immigrants from the former Soviet Union, have formed a ferocious anti-gay movement in the western U.S.
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On the first day of July, Satender Singh was gay-bashed to death. The 26-year-old Fijian of Indian descent was enjoying a holiday weekend outing at Lake Natoma with three married Indian couples around his age. Singh was delicate and dateless -- two facts that did not go unnoticed by a party of Russian-speaking immigrants two picnic tables away.

According to multiple witnesses, the men began loudly harassing Singh and his friends, calling them "7-Eleven workers" and "Sodomites." The Slavic men bragged about belonging to a Russian evangelical church and told Singh that he should go to a "good church" like theirs. According to Singh's friends, the harassers sent their wives and children home, then used their cell phones to summon several more Slavic men. The members of Singh's party, which included a woman six months pregnant, became afraid and tried to leave. But the Russian-speaking men blocked them with their bodies.

The pregnant woman said she didn't want to fight them.

"We don't want to fight you either," one of them replied in English. "We just want your faggot friend."

One of the Slavic men then sucker-punched Singh in the head. He fell to the ground, unconscious and bleeding. The assailants drove off in a green sedan and red sports car, hurling bottles at Singh's friends to prevent them from jotting down the license plate. Singh suffered a brain hemorrhage. By the next day, hospital tests confirmed that he was clinically brain dead. His family agreed to remove him from artificial life support July 5.

Outside Singh's hospital room, more than 100 people held a vigil. Many were Sacramento gay activists who didn't know Singh personally, but who saw his death as the tragic but inevitable result of what they describe as the growing threat of large numbers of Slavic anti-gay extremists, most of them first- or second-generation immigrants from Russia, the Ukraine and other countries of the former Soviet Union, in their city and others in the western United States.

In recent months, as energetic Russian-speaking "Russian Baptists" and Pentecostals in these states have organized to bring thousands to anti-gay protests, gay rights activists in Sacramento have picketed Slavic anti-gay churches, requested more police patrols in gay neighborhoods and distributed information cards warning gays and lesbians about the hostile Slavic evangelicals who they say have roughed up participants at gay pride events. Singh's death was the realization of their worst fears.

"After a couple years of fundamentalist and Slavic Christian virulent anti-gay protests at almost every Sacramento gay event in the region," said local gay rights activist Michael Gorman, "what the gay community has feared for some time has finally happened."

The Watchmen

Gay rights activists blame Singh's death on what they call "The West Coast connection" or the "U.S.-Latvia Axis of Hate," a reference to a virulent Latvian megachurch preacher who has become a central figure in the hard-line Slavic anti-gay movement in the West. And indeed, in early August, authorities announced that two Slavic men, one of whom had fled to Russia, were being charged in Singh's death, which they characterized as a hate crime.

A growing and ferocious anti-gay movement in the Sacramento Valley is centered among Russian- and Ukrainian-speaking immigrants. Many of them are members of an international extremist anti-gay movement whose adherents call themselves the Watchmen on the Walls. In Latvia, the Watchmen are popular among Christian fundamentalists and ethnic Russians, and are known for presiding over anti-gay rallies where gays and lesbians are pelted with bags of excrement. In the Western U.S., the Watchmen have a following among Russian-speaking evangelicals from the former Soviet Union. Members are increasingly active in several cities long known as gay-friendly enclaves, including Sacramento, Seattle and Portland, Ore.

Vlad Kusakin, the host of a Russian-language anti-gay radio show in Sacramento and the publisher of a Russian-language newspaper in Seattle, told The Seattle Times in January that God has "made an injection" of high numbers of anti-gay Slavic evangelicals into traditionally liberal West Coast cities. "In those places where the disease is progressing, God made a divine penicillin," Kusakin said.

The anti-gay tactics of the Slavic evangelicals in the U.S. branch of the Watchmen movement are just as crude and even more physically abusive than Fred Phelps' infamous Westboro Baptist Church, and they're rooted in gay-bashing theology that's even more hardcore than the late Jerry Falwell's. Slavic anti-gay talk radio hosts and fundamentalist preachers routinely deliver hateful screeds on the airwaves and from the pulpit in their native tongue that, were they delivered in English, would be a source of nationwide controversy.

Dennis Mangers, a gay former California state senator who now lobbies for the cable industry, said that when he met a prominent leader of Sacramento's Slavic community at a 2006 weekend reconciliation retreat, the Slavic leader told him: "You have to understand, we equate homosexuals with thieves, adulterers and murderers. ... You are an abomination."

Current California State Sen. Darrell Steinberg (D-Sacramento), who rode in a dignitary car in Sacramento's 2006 gay pride parade, told The Sacramento Bee he was shocked by the vitriolic comments shouted by Slavic fundamentalist counter-demonstrators. "The words are vile ... and words may give people the implicit license to take the next step and hurt people."


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View:
Cell phone mobs
Posted by: YogiBear on Oct 5, 2007 12:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cell phones make mob action easy. Some schools ban them not just because they disrupt class but because they allow kids to text each other into gangs whenever someone's getting into it with another student.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

These groups need to hate to make themselves feel better.
Posted by: SBK on Oct 5, 2007 1:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the 1930s and 40s in their countries and this current behavior! It maybe a different enemy this time, but we should take seriously the poverty, low income jobs, and low self-esteem that continues to drive this nasty crap. Western states should call on our legislators and law enforcement now, loudly, to put an end to it before it gets out of hand. GLBT taxpayers have lived in relative peace in our states for decades and it is nothing short of unacceptable to ignore the obvious signs of where this is coming from and what it could lead to. It has nothing to do with the gay community specifically, scratch behind the hate for the pain that drives it! Protect our citizens and insist on real solutions! Not in my backyard!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Civilization? Go to Sweden
Posted by: PJT on Oct 5, 2007 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a sad story.

In case you haven't noticed, intolerance is a fundamental characteristic of Americans. Look around you: the clock is being turned back on civility everywhere. Except for some thin strips of diversity and tolerance along the edges and in the big interior cities, America is a racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-immigrant stew pot of Christian resentment and prejudice. Drive around in the rural precincts on a Sunday morning: you will see hundreds of cars parked at cathedrals of hate, where the message is that people who don't look like the picture of white Jesus and Mary on the poster down in the Sunday school are bad, that people who think about ideas are evil, the people who believe in the scientific method are Satan's spawn, that people who are different are to be destroyed in Hell fire. To be holy and saved you send your money to the church and the GOP. Don't question the authority of your betters, such as the pastor, the owner, the foreman, the president. In exchange for subservience, you rule your household and determine what your wife and daughters can do or not do, with their lives and even their bodies.

If you don't like it, go somewhere else. If you want civilization, move to Sweden.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Go to Sweden? Not so fast! Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Go to Sweden? Not so fast! Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Civilization? Go to Sweden Posted by: HoboHomo
Slavic Scum
Posted by: catullus13 on Oct 5, 2007 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in New Jersey we have lots of emigrants from Russia, Latvia, etc. With all the brouhaha over illegal Latino immigrants, I tell people that the ones we should be concerned about are the scourings we get from Russia. Having met many of them, I think they are a major threat to our ideals of democracy and tolerance. Most of them are virulently homophobic, racist, sexist and sneering about democratic values.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Leman
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Leman
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Leman
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: tya
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: levp
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: HoboHomo
» Where I stand Posted by: Leman
» RE: Where I stand Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: JFeygin
» YOU'RE RACIST!! Posted by: madaha
» RE: YOU'RE RACIST!! Posted by: HoboHomo
» My Russian friend IS gay! Posted by: madaha
» Erroneous Hetero Posted by: HoboHomo
» Yeah, well . . . Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Yeah, well . . . Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: rroneous Hetero Posted by: Turiye
» One more article "gleaned" Posted by: HoboHomo
» You MUST be kidding! Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: rroneous Hetero Posted by: Lauren
» RE: rroneous Hetero Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: MindyB
Yet more immigrant violence and crime. Any surprise? One wonders
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Oct 5, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why these 'crimes' justify an Alternet article? Perhaps because the immigrants in question are 'white'? Or maybe it is because the victims are "LGBTs" and/or "non-white"? Of course, Alternet ignores the African-Americans, cops, whites, and others killed by Mexican immigrants. Or the DUI accidents. Or the rapes. Or the "serial killings", like the infamous "Railroad Killer" Ramierez. But an isolated event by some Slavic immigrants, who also were alledged to be legal immigrants primarily, in one part of the country is worth a whole article. Interesting, to say the least.....

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7-11 workers
Posted by: Shiv on Oct 5, 2007 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't most of these russians work in salons as crotch waxers?The ones who aren't offering themselves up for sale to pervets via catalogs that is. Of course there's also the brutal organized crime they partake in. If you want to get into stereotypes that is.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: 7-11 workers Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: 7-11 workers Posted by: HoboHomo
Where it is coming from
Posted by: Nick on Oct 5, 2007 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After Soviet Union collapsed,
all former Nazi collaborators that were hiding in Russia,
Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, and Litva
and especially the ones that escaped to USA and Latin America began to come back and with the help of Nazis that escaped from Germany and settled all over the world, started forming different organisations that resemble all these Nazi organisations that existed in Germany and helped Hitler to come to power. Those that died left children to continue their work. The "Cristian Evangelicals" is one of them.
They still dreaming of "Rewansh"

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» RE: Where it is coming from Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Where it is coming from Posted by: JFeygin
Yup
Posted by: Robba29 on Oct 5, 2007 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I taught in Sacramento. When we had the National Day of Silence at our school, aside from the traditional fundamentalist groups that opposed it, the Russian immigrant kids were down right rude, requiring removal from the class because they couldn't respect people's differences. Russian gangs in Sacramento, especially the Rancho Cordova area has been responsible for auto theft and chop shop operations, meth labs, and numerous murders. They are heavily connected through their church, and most of them will tell you that its because of the suppression in the former Soviet Union that their parents experienced. So, what you get is not just a born again mentality, but a born again and uber-survivorish type adherence to their version of scripture.

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Not Necessarily A Solution...
Posted by: Xynyx on Oct 5, 2007 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not going to suggest that this would have been a "good" solution... but I sure would rather have read that this gentleman pulled out a handgun and killed 3 or 4 of these bastards, sending the rest bleeding to the hospital, where they could be arrested for assaulting him and his family and friends. Instead, he's dead. I definitely don't feel good about that.

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thekidde
Posted by: thekidde on Oct 5, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More proof of the virulent and inherent ugliness of religion and the self-righteous. Were Jesus truly "divine", he'd have come back long ago and kicked some serious ass.

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» RE: thekidde Posted by: Lauren
» duh Posted by: defrag
» Bingo Posted by: defrag
» RE: thekidde Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: thekidde Posted by: Lauren
» RE: thekidde Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: thekidde Posted by: HoboHomo
WHY anti Slavic????
Posted by: AmeriPole on Oct 5, 2007 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don’t get that! Why are they called Slavic-Christians?? Slavic Nations are not only Russians and Ukrainians!!! I feel insulted now!!! There are probably well over 100 million people that are Slavs and are neither Russians nor Ukrainians. If you look at those people closely you would see that many of them are Russian Jews!!! Only Jews could get out of former SU through Israel to US. Most of the older “Russians” in US are Jews!

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» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: levp
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: levp
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: MindyB
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: lilybelle212
Ironically, I'm guessing half of these assholes are gay themselves.
Posted by: MAD on Oct 5, 2007 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever I hear of someone attacking homosexuals, I instinctively feel that they are probably gay themselves and beat others as a result of some kind of demented, misplaced self-hatred and deep sense of shame. People who are comfortable with their sexuality don't give a shit who other people sleep with.

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» Please... Posted by: tdcr
» RE: Please... Posted by: MAD
» MAD is a blatant homophobe Posted by: HoboHomo
This ain't news
Posted by: FedUp on Oct 5, 2007 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
San Franciscans have been aware of Russian and Ukrainian thug behavior for two decades.
Bill Cosby's son was murdered by Ukrainian gang members.
While everyone is focused on "Messicans", they've been operating under the radar.

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» RE: This ain't news Posted by: URBANHABUKI
arm yourselves
Posted by: karyse on Oct 5, 2007 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know it's not a popular position here at alternet, but most of us "gun nuts" who live in a state wherein no one is afraid of an armed citizen, and wherein carrying is allowed, it rarely happens that someone at a picnic site would even dream of hassling a "possibly [probably] armed" neighbor.

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» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: juanpecan81
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: karyse
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: karyse
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: YogiBear
The Catholic Church says sex is only for procreation...
Posted by: Landbaron on Oct 5, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's the difference between a single man and woman using birth control, having sex for the sake of pure pleasure than 2 women or 2 men? Someone said being bi-sexual doubles your chances for a date, but they're all going to hell 'cos they're at the mercy of sex.....

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Guess What...
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Oct 5, 2007 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... The Christian Right LOVES these people. They do the work that home-grown Christians are loathe to do.

In addition, I recently had a run in with one of these nutcases. I was driving in traffic here in Chicago on a major thoroughfare. Came to a stoplight. A van had been behind me for maybe three or four blocks. As I came to the stop the van pulled up to the RIGHT of me in a clear lane and stopped. Since I have a license plate frame with the name of my business on it, I thought the person - who beckoned me to roll down my passenger side window - wanted to inquire about my service. That has happened before.

But no. The driver of the van had seen my TINY LITTLE decal on the back window. It was a three-inch rainbow flag.

The driver said loudly, 'Are you gay?' I noted the Slavic accent. For those who don't know Chicago we have a large Slavic population. Lots of Russians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, etc. You name it. They're here.
I said, 'Who wants to know?"
The driver said, 'God doesn't want you to be gay.'
I said, 'Fuck your god.'

The driver sped away just as the light changed.

I can imagine what would have happened if this exchanged had occurred at night and not in a public place like a 4-lane road.

These people are a menace to society. They are a danger to civilization. Their religious mythology trumps laws, decency and morals. They are evil and love their made up bullshit far more than they love their own mothers.

And the Religious Right in this country loves them. They are the perfect foot soldiers to carry out the work they want to do but can't due to being scrutinized too closely. They'll be happy to let foreigners go to jail for maiming or killing a gay person. It keeps the onus off them. It's a perfect strategy.

And you want to know the best part of this new wave of Slavic anti-gay fuckwads? They have the LAW on their side. They are motivated to go out in to the streets to get their way. The squeaky wheel gets greased. They get petitions signed. They go door to door. They'll even shout as loudly as they can with bullhorns to get their way. They have no modesty because they're extremely undereducated. And they appeal to the worst elements of our society: severely retarded Republican Right Evangelicals.

It's only going to get worse unless US citizens and those of us who have history here reclaim our Constitution for us and not for some Medieval mythological claims.

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» RE: Guess What... Posted by: goatini
» additionally Posted by: goatini
» RE: Guess What... Posted by: MAD
» and furthermore Posted by: goatini
"Christians" in Name Only
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 5, 2007 10:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't expect conservative churches to support lesbian and gay rights, but they really should be teaching tolerance and forgiveness.

Back in 1990, my friend Rankin Fisher, a former Missionary Baptist minister, who also happens to be gay, commented, "No religion can condone homosexuality."

That may be, but no religion can condone sex outside of marriage, either. People are doing these things anyway! Who am I to pass judgment on another?

"All have sinned and all fall short of the glory of God," is how the apostle Paul put it.

Paul told his followers to bless their persecutors and not curse them (Romans 12:14), to care for their enemies by providing them with food and drink (12:20), and to pay their taxes and obey all earthly governments (13:1-7). He mentioned giving all his belongings to feed the hungry (I Corinthians 13:3), and taught giving to the person in need (Ephesians 4:23). He told his followers it was wrong to take their conflicts before non-Christian courts rather than before the saints. (I Corinthians 6:1)

Paul taught "it is good for a man not to touch a woman," i.e., it is best to be celibate, but because of prevailing immoralities, marriage is allowed. Divorce is permissible in the case of an unbeliever demanding separation. (I Corinthians 7)

"This is God's will--your sanctification, that you keep yourselves from sexual immorality, that each of you learn how to take his own wife in purity and honor, not in lustful passion like the gentiles who have no knowledge of God." (I Thessalonians 4:3-5)

Paul told his followers not to associate with sexually immoral people (I Corinthians 5:9-12, 6:15,18). He opposed homosexuality (Romans 1:24-27) and incest (I Corinthians 5:1). He taught that fornicators, idolaters, adulterers and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God. (I Corinthians 6:9-10)

Paul condemned wickedness, immorality, depravity, greed, murder, quarreling, deceit, malignity, gossip, slander, insolence, pride (Romans 1:29-30), drunkenness, carousing, debauchery, jealousy (Romans 13:13), sensuality, magic arts, animosities, bad temper, selfishness, dissensions, envy (Galatians 5:19-21; greediness (Ephesians 4:19; Colossians 3:5), foul speech, anger, clamor, abusive language, malice (Ephesians 4:29-32), dishonesty (Colossians 3:13), materialism (I Timothy 6:6-11), conceit, avarice, boasting and treachery. (II Timothy 3:2-4)

Paul praised love, joy, peace, kindness, generosity, fidelity and gentleness (Galatians 5:22-23). He told his followers to conduct themselves with humility and gentleness (Ephesians 4:2), to speak to one another in psalms and hymns; to sing heartily and make music to the Lord. (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16)

Paul told the gentiles to train themselves for godliness, to practice self-control and lead upright, godly lives (Galatians 5:23; I Timothy 4:7; II Timothy 1:7; Titus 2:11-12). He told them to ALWAYS pray constantly. (I Thessalonians 5:17)

Paul wrote further that women should cover their heads while worshiping, and that long hair on males is dishonorable. (I Corinthians 11:5-14) According to Paul, Christian women are to dress modestly and prudently, and are not to be adorned with braided hair, gold or pearls or expensive clothes. (I Timothy 2:9)

My problem really isn't with Christians not being able to follow Paul, but with the hypocrisy of saying "I believe," and then ignoring the rest of what their religion dictates when it suits them. Why not just be secular, like everyone else? (It would certainly make things easier for those of us in the vegetarian and animal rights movements.)

It's my contention all of us (Christians included!) really live in a secular society; one in which people merely pay lip service to religious ideals.

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» RE: "Christians" in Name Only Posted by: holt9106
xenophobic hate in comments is staggering
Posted by: madaha on Oct 5, 2007 11:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow. Newsflash - the problem is the fundamentalist Xianity, not people from slavic countries. The lesson from the article, clearly, is that we need to be tolerant, but all the commenters seem to see is yet another group to hate and bash. What is going on? It's not the ethnic group, it's the dogma!!

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» In America, Posted by: hurricane hugo
all "slavs" are not alike
Posted by: madaha on Oct 5, 2007 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to the haters: try watching a Dushan Makavejev film - much needed corrective to all the slav-bashing here. Sex positive, hilarious....I recommend WR: Mysteries of the Organism. Let's put this problem into perspective, and not begin to hate entire groups, please! We're better than that!

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quite a contrast in treatment
Posted by: Zenobia on Oct 5, 2007 12:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it odd that violent white immigrants are allowed to stay in this country without threat of deportation, but we are building detention camps for those brown ones who just want to harvest our vegetables and, if necessary to feed their families, are willing to clean our public restrooms and wash our sloppy dishes.

I am not SURPRISED, given who/what is in charge of the immigration process. But I am dumbfounded.

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Good Old Leviticus
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Oct 5, 2007 12:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amazing what people can justify using religion. Here's a great post I saw a while back on another forum, from someone called Richard Roe. I don't think he would mind having it reprinted here:

Good Old Leviticus!

Classic Quotes from Leviticus - Old Testament 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 4. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put death, should I do it or should I ask the police to do it? 5. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Aren't there 'degrees' of abomination? 6. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20 or is there a little wiggle room there? 7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 8. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

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» RE: Good Old Leviticus Posted by: bansidh@citlink.net
Some misconceptions here about who these immigrants are
Posted by: defrag on Oct 5, 2007 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Sacramento situation -- BEFORE this murder -- has been covered extensively in the gay press for some time now. Most of the immigrants who came there were not Orthodox at all, but members of a Baptist sect, and as such were persecuted in Soviet times far more than the Orthodox were. With the help of US co-religionists, towards the end of communism they began to be allowed to leave. The immigrants were shocked to find tolerance toward gays in the area, and they found that hard to tolerate. But there have been no anti-gay murders until this one, which is maybe no worse a record than any moderate-sized immigrant group.

Not to let Russian Orthodoxy entirely off the hook, but I think a lot of factors are being conflated here, both in the article and in some of the overheated comments. Protestants & Catholics are not allowed freedom of religion in Russia even today, under a neo-tsarist "status quo ante" law of Yeltsin's to discourage Western proselytizing. (Like anyone who's suffered thru Western proselytizing, I almost can't blame them, but still....)

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Queer Reality TV Comes Of Age
Posted by: HoboHomo on Oct 5, 2007 12:27 PM