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Rights and Liberties

Bush Isn't Spying on al Qaeda ... He's Spying on You

By Robert Parry, Consortium News. Posted August 4, 2007.


The extraordinary secrecy surrounding the spying operations revealed in Alberto Gonzales' Senate testimony is not aimed at al-Qaeda, but at the American people.
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The dispute over whether Attorney General Alberto Gonzales committed perjury when he parsed words about George W. Bush's warrantless surveillance program misses a larger point: the extraordinary secrecy surrounding these spying operations is not aimed at al-Qaeda, but at the American people.

There has never been a reasonable explanation for why a fuller discussion of these operations would help al-Qaeda, although that claim often is used by the Bush administration to challenge the patriotism of its critics or to avoid tough questions.

On July 27, for instance, White House press secretary Tony Snow fended off reporters who asked about apparent contradictions in Gonzales's testimony by saying:

"This gets us back into the situation that I understand is unsatisfactory because there are lots of questions raised and the vast majority of those we're not going to be in a position to answer, simply because they do involve matters of classification that we cannot and will not discuss publicly."

Discussion closed.

But al-Qaeda terrorists always have assumed that their electronic communications were vulnerable to interception, which is why 9/11 attackers like Mohamed Atta traveled overseas for face-to-face meetings with their handlers. They limited their phone calls to mostly routine conversations.

The terrorists also had no reason to know or to care that the U.S. government was or wasn't getting wiretap approval from the secret court created by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. They simply took for granted that their communications could be intercepted and acted accordingly.

It never made sense to think that al-Qaeda terrorists suddenly would get loose-lipped just because the FISA court was or wasn't in the mix. The FISA court rubber-stamps almost all wiretap requests from the Executive Branch for domestic spying, and overseas calls don't require a warrant.

Can anyone really imagine a conversation like "Gee, Osama, since Bush has to get FISA approval, we can now call our sleeper agents and plan the next attack."

Similarly, there's no reason to think terrorists would change their behavior significantly if they knew that the U.S. government was engaged in massive data-mining operations, poring through electronic records of citizens and non-citizens alike.

The 9/11 attackers mostly stayed off the grid and many of their transactions, such as renting housing, would not alone have raised suspicions. Indeed, the patterns that deserved more attention, such as enrollment in flight-training classes and the arrival of known al-Qaeda operatives, were detected by alert FBI agents in the field but ignored by FBI officials in Washington -- and by Bush while on a month-long vacation in Texas.

The 9/11 attacks were less a failure of intelligence than a failure of political attention by Bush's national security team.

Americans in the Dark

So what's the real explanation for all the secrecy about the overall structure of the so-called Terrorist Surveillance Program?

The chief reason, especially for the excessive secrecy around the data-mining operations, appears to be Bush's political need to prevent a full debate inside the United States about the security value of these Big Brother-type procedures when weighed against invasions of Americans' privacy.

Bush knows he could run into trouble if he doesn't keep the American people in the dark. In 2002, for instance, when the Bush administration launched a project seeking "total information awareness" on virtually everyone on earth involved in the modern economy, the disclosure was met with public alarm.

The administration cited the terrorist threat to justify the program which involved applying advanced computer technology to analyze trillions of bytes of data on electronic transactions and communications. The goal was to study the electronic footprints left by every person in the developed world during the course of their everyday lives -- from the innocuous to the embarrassing to the potentially significant.

The government could cross-check books borrowed from a library, fertilizer bought at a farm-supply outlet, X-rated movies rented at a video store, prescriptions filled at a pharmacy, sites visited on the Internet, tickets reserved for a plane, borders crossed while traveling, rooms rented at a motel, and countless other examples.


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See more stories tagged with: civil liberties, gonzales, spying programs

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Neck Deep: The Disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush, can be ordered at neckdeepbook.com.

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I've been electronically spied on by the U.S. govt - my story
Posted by: Whitecliff on Aug 4, 2007 1:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is true...MANY Americans are being spied on these days.

I had my computer and internet connection tapped earlier this year by the U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security for no apparent reason (and I have the proof in the form of a screen capture which shows me logged in as the US-DHS on some random website). My internet browsing history could still be tracked to this very day...I have no clue if the DHS is still tracking my internet activity.

I am a patriotic American citizen. I am not a terrorist, criminal, spy, drug dealer, violent revolutionary, gun runner, foreign national, Arab/Persian/Pakistani, Muslim, or anything else currently deemed 'bad' by the U.S. govt. I am only a college student with a clean record. I have done nothing wrong yet I have been spied on by the U.S. government. WHY?

I am thinking of using the ACLU or another similar organization to bring a lawsuit against the U.S. government (specifically the DHS) for the violation of my 4th Amendment rights to. The 4th Amendment, the part of the U.S. Constitution that I believe has been violated, is as follows: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Do you all here think that I could succeed with this lawsuit against the DHS?

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» No Posted by: Bobsays
5 easy ways to tell if the Feds know you're a terrrist
Posted by: eddie torres on Aug 4, 2007 12:15 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) Do you wear a Casio watch? If the answer is yes, pack your bags - you're headed for Gitmo.

2) Do you have a MySpace page? If yes, you're busted. Prepare to be dragged out of your cushy classroom at any moment by the Secret Service.

3) Are you studying electronics, computer technology, or telecommunications? If yes, you probably also know someone who speaks French. That's a Category 1 / Urgent Priority / Red Flag for Federal investigators. Gitmo.

4) Is there a book or a map anywhere on your campus that describes or depicts anything from "Middle-East-North-Africa"? If yes, you're definitely a terrrist. Here's how the Feds singled you out.

5) Do you own a whistle? If yes, you will probably be mistaken for a "whistle-blower" and are at least a legitimate surveillance target.

Now that you know you're a terrrist, do you think the ACLU can help you? Forget it. The ACLU is bugged, tapped, shadowed, keystroked, hacked, cracked, and otherwise monitored on an hourly basis by the NSA / DoJ / FBI and 20 other black-hat Fed operations. They're even taunting the ACLU about it.

Want to hire a lawyer? Again, forget about it. The DoJ is free to issue a waiver that forces an attorney to break the attorney-client-privilege agreement and turn over all records of communications to Gonzo.

If you really want to understand the situation you're in, read this story about Jerome Heckenkamp's saga at the University of Wisconsin. It's all about private companies, campus system administrators, and the freedom to label a social outsider an "enemy of the corporate state".

Here's the big lesson: forget about spending your college years stealing and trading music files. Get an advanced degree in engineering and study every hour of every day until you graduate. You'll be employed every day for the rest of your life either repairing or rebuilding the infrastructure of the US that's falling apart as I type.

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now you tell us...
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Aug 4, 2007 1:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
its too little..too late that you point out the obvious ..terrorists and criminals assume that their phones are being tapped...but by the time anyone reads this response..both houses of congress will have caved in to king george..so that they could start their vacations on time...maybe if someone had pointed out the obvious earlier..then maybe more ppl would have contacted their local reps and pointed it out to them...

and now its my turn to point out the equally obvious consequences ..millions of americans who think they have nothing to hide (namely small online retailers with customers overseas) will get caught up in gonzos' fishing expeditions..while all the big fish get away...

now is the time to open your hushmail account...

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» RE: No more 9-11's Posted by: bestofthebest
» RE: No more 9-11's Posted by: Aimleft
The irony of all this spying
Posted by: Bobsays on Aug 4, 2007 1:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is that the next attack will come from somebody who has gone to ground. They will be offline and under the wire. Just like in the UK, a whole load of doctors entered the country, got good jobs, paid their taxes and then ta da!, were driving a suicide bomb into an airport.

We zig and they zag. They aren't stupid and have jerked America's chain for many years now. America just keeps doing what they surmise America would do.

If we were serious about reducing this threat, then we would stop the massive immigration coming in from muslim countries, we would shut down Saudi Arabia, really control borders, and deport anyone who is involved in preaching militant ideologies. Just ring fence from the threat, rather than the current approach, where the threat just moves around out there unfettered.

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The System.
Posted by: shangrilalad on Aug 4, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.

“As long as we remain shackled to a system of these two thoroughly corrupt political parties, the Republicans and the Democrats, there seems little hope for national salvation.” Dave Lindorff.

The key word here is system. We have a legalized system of bribery and self-perpetuating corruption that can’t be reformed, and can’t be beaten within the existing corrupt laws and cunningly crafted political framework. We simply can’t beat the system by operating within the system, because no matter who we vote for, corruption wins.

While Democratic Representatives dazzle us with trivialities, Bush declares himself dictator.

The obvious solution is a third party, but does anyone really think our system rulers will allow that to happen? They have all economic, political, police and military power, and if Iraq is any indication, they won’t hesitate to declare Martial Law and kill millions of Americans to keep their wealth and power.

We must find some way to work outside the system, that doesn’t provoke violent retaliation.

One way to do that is to support a candidate that the system has shunned. The system and media shun Dennis Kucinich.

Our enemy’s, enemy could be our only hope to dismantle the system.

We could form our own Independent party, and ask Dennis Kucinich to lead it.

.

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» RE: The System. Posted by: peacefullaim
The bigger picture - what to do
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 4, 2007 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Absolutely nothing that Bush's administration does is for the purpose of defending or enhancing the American people's lives, its only legitimate function.

Without exception, everything that they do is political - intended to increase or consolidate their stronghold on government, or, the point of all the politics, redirecting public funds their way, none of which is legitimately classified.

The ability to classify documents, in the hands of the neocons, is presently more of a threat to Americans' freedoms and property than any foreign entity.

After you've read enough of these articles about the neocons and gotten the gestalt of their values, agenda and tactics, one induces that they are absolutely corrupt and absolutely criminal, and there is nothing that they wouldn't do for more money or power, including destroy much of the life on earth. Some may consider this hyperbole. I mean it literally.

Given that, it isn't shocking (or even news, as the author suggests) that the neocons have politicized and abused classifying intelligence. It would be shocking to find evidence to the contrary. Additional stories about the neocons excesses only confirm what no longer needs confirming.

What does deserve attention, however, beside the problem of ridding ourselves of the neocon infestation is the pathetic state of the American people, how they got to be so politically and scientifically naïve, and how to cope with that. Once ruggedly independent and fiercely protective of their freedoms, they have devolved into political toddlers, complete with magical thinking, blind trust in authority and horrible judgment. Thirty percent still think that Bush is doing a good job.

What I’m driving at is that the commonwealth is/was essentially a giant, public business with millions of citizen owners, and our partners are largely demented. They have signed over power of attorney on our behalf (as well as their own) to thugs and criminals. They have sold what we considered most precious for a handful of magic beans and promises from proven liars, and they’re still our partners!

That’s why I’ve given up on Americans pulling out of this tailspin in my lifetime. This country is like the Titanic, and all signs are that it's going down despite liberals and progressives bailing water. It's time to look for a lifeboat.

Another reason to leave is that I'm tired of feces being flung at me for believing what I believe as a liberal, and I neither love nor want to live with these brutes any longer. How did our original forefathers, the Puritans, handle that kind of ideological oppression? They bailed on England and embarked on a pilgrimmage for a better life elsewhere. We honor them every Thanksgiving.

Secularism and liberalism are oppressed and despised in this country as much as the Pilgrims were in 17th century England. And my solution is the same.

I want a better life than what the future holds for America. Plus, let the Republicans who despise us inherit this debt and world hatred. Let the Republicans get nuked by a terrorist that they helped create, in some port that they refuse to protect. Let the Republican fight in Iraq. They're responsible.

Why would I want to help clean up the mess made by people who treated me (and you) so badly anyway? Don't you remember, you America-hating, treasonous, cut-and-run, terrorist-loving, coward? I haven't forgotten, and I won't forgive. So I'll leave the neocons and the ditto heads to each other. Its only the liberals that deserve my concern.

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» Is there anything TO do...? Posted by: mjabele
» "I am just a poor boy... Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Is there anything TO do...? Posted by: Lincoln fan
one nation under surveillance
Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 4, 2007 10:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the attempts to bug the Democratic headquarters which led to the Watergate break-in, to Linda Tripp recording Monica Lewinsky without her knowledge or consent, to George W. Bush's warrantless surveillance program, Republicans are expert at putting people under surveillance.

May our civil liberties prevail.

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The Ministry of Truth - 1984
Posted by: Ghoulman on Aug 4, 2007 11:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Information Awareness Office even boasted a logo that looked like some kind of clip art from George Orwell's 1984. The logo showed the Masonic symbol of an all-seeing eye atop a pyramid peering over the globe, with the slogan, "scientia est potentia," Latin for "knowledge is power."

This is true, I even still have their original logo. They have changed it since, natch.

Ever notice Republicans create bureaucracies at the drop of a hat?

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What About Israel Spying on Americans?
Posted by: freethink7 on Aug 4, 2007 11:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As pointed out in this article, it’s a very serious issue that our own government is spying on U.S. citizens……probably to suppress/nullify opposition/dissent, ultimately meant to intimidate Americans into silence ( - so we will not speak out and be vociferous about the illegal wars in M.E). But, the issue of Israel spying on U.S. is also very important. Israel has been spying on American citizens, but for what? The U.S. military is after all, Israel’s Trojan horse in the war with Iraq and Afghanistan (possibly upcoming Iran war). Links below show a discernable pattern of Israel spying on U.S./U.S. citizens and what emerges is not a pretty picture. But why is this story so suppressed by the U.S. mainstream media…..perhaps because Israel is really running the political and news media show here in U.S. Links are provided below from my research, also there are links regarding Israel’s Medigo spying program (on U.S. citizens) using computers/data mining.

AlterNet has been strangely, almost surrealistically silent on the issue of Israel spying on the U.S. AlterNet, will you please run a story on this very important issue.

I apologize in advance if my comment is slightly off topic, but I personally feel this is all somehow connected to Bush-Gonzales-NSA spying on U.S. citizens…..since Bu$h-Cheney-Gonzales are in bed with Israel and the U.S. military is Israel’s Trojan horse in the war with Iraq…..then it would make sense that Israel is engaging in spying on Americans (the M.E. wars are after all their wars).

These links are but a few sources regarding Israel’s spying methodologies in U.S. and reveals how Israel has their tentacles deep into U.S., and in some cases, our own government colludes with them….is this not treason? Is the U.S. its own sovereign nation, or have we evolved into the United States of Israel?


ADL spying on U.S. citizens – ADL keeps files on U.S. political activists
ADLSpyUSCitizensADLFilesUSCitizen

Israel’s Medigo Spying Project - Data Mining and Monitoring Computer Activities of Americans
MedigoSpyProjectIsraelSpiesUSJudicialInc
IsraelSpyMegBlogForumLetRoll

Israel Spying at Pentagon – involves office of Douglas Feith and Rumsfeld
IsraelSpyPentagonFeith

AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) spying involving wiretaps, undercover surveillance/photography
Passing information on to Israel – includes Israel spying at Pentagon
IsraelSpyingPentagonAIPAC

Israeli Espionage Against the U.S. (depicts timeline of Israel’s history of spying on U.S. 50’s thru present)
IsraeliEspinageUSTimelineSince1950

AIPAC Spy Nest Exposed (indictments implicating Franklin, Rosen, Weissman, et al)
AIPACSpyNestExposedFranklinRosenWeissman

Israeli “Art Students” Spying at U.S. Federal Government Offices
ArtStudentsSpyingGovernmentOffices

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» Dissent...Dissent....Dissent !!!! Posted by: starvinmarvy
NO...THEY ARE SPYING ON CONGRESS
Posted by: sivermoon22 on Aug 4, 2007 12:15 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for a gret read. Again.

But, now we know, for certain, we the Dems cave on us at every turn. Bush has them all by the short hairs. He knows everything about them. That can't be pretty. In some cases, I would not be surprised if the info he has could put people in jail. They fear for their safety, their wives, husbands, and kids. They fear they will be outed. Why do you think the DC Madam was allowed to operate in that town for so long and never was put away for any length of time. She's got the real goods. One guy was outed. he must have done something wrong in Bush's eyes. I can assure you, there are likely 50 more names on her list, and many are Dems - so you can forget it. They have sold their souls to the Devil himself. They know it. They are weak.

So, it is far too late, imho, to turn things around my friends. It's over. Party is over. We let it happen. The republicans are mostly to blame, but stolen elections are everyone's fault. We kept re-electing incumbents over and over and over and over and over......and that is why we are here in large part.

So, there are few in Congress that can't be outed for something. Bush knows everything about every one of them.

The 2008 election will also be stolen. Even if Clinton gets in, and she's no longer a true Dem. They got to her too. She won't be any better. She will be forced to tow the line, with people above her. Not that she would mine doing that. There's a lot more to Bill an Hillary than you wanna know.

I am oh so curious how it is that the two front runners were both in NYC during 911.
Odd. And Romney was based Mass - near enough the Boston Airport where all those flights flew out of. I don't trust anyone running except Obama. That's it.

But, they likely will kill him before he ever takes an oath.

Tuck your head between your legs.

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The Feds already know you're a terrrist
Posted by: eddie torres on Aug 4, 2007 12:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wiretap-FISA dance is just a jobs program for slow-witted federal employees from the heartland. The people who count in DC already know you're a terrrist and are datamining every corner of US life for blackmail and profit purposes. They have their own private sociopath agendas, and everyone else is just in the way.

Here are 5 easy questions to ask which explain how the Feds outfoxed you:

1) Do you wear a Casio watch? If the answer is yes, pack your bags - you're headed for Gitmo.

2) Do you have a MySpace page? If yes, you're busted. Prepare for a visit from the Secret Service.

3) Are you studying electronics, computer technology, or telecommunications? If yes, you probably also know someone who speaks French. That's a Category 1 / Urgent Priority Red Flag for Federal investigators. Just to be safe, you've been flagged.

4) Is there a book or a map anywhere in your home that describes or depicts anything from "Middle-East-North-Africa"? If yes, you're definitely a terrrist. Here's how the Feds singled you out.

5) Do you own a whistle? If yes, you will probably be mistaken for a "whistle-blower" and are at least a legitimate surveillance target.

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End It Now
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Aug 4, 2007 2:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would probably be for the best if we just smothered our young and had a giant kool-aid party right now because the future looks like it's going to be a 'boot stomping on a human face forever' type of affair.

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» RE: End It Now Posted by: Paxmana1
» RE: nd It Now Posted by: Lauren
» RE: nd It Now Posted by: bob t
RE: Crazy stuff
Posted by: Lauren on Aug 5, 2007 11:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You mean bullshit ad.

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RE: Crazy stuff = is total BS marketing website
Posted by: ArtemInox on Aug 5, 2007 11:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The End.

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Time for Common Sense
Posted by: sofla100 on Aug 4, 2007 8:28 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's amazing to me is the really low likelihood of an effective outcome (preventing terrorism) based on the investment of such a large amount of resources and money (ie, the billions for sophisticated computer/tapping technology and the manpower to run it all).

Now, the mind-boggling is that 95% of shipping containers coming into the USA are never inspected. Also, many chemical plants are considered vulnerable. Simple enhanced security measures to increase the screening of incoming shimpments and better security for chemical plants have been jettisoned as "too expensive" (especially after industry lobbying). But, apparently it is not "too expensive" to run a large scale surveillance apparatus.

Finally, we need common sense injected into this whole mess. Forget the bothering of little old ladies at airport security checkpoints for nail clippers or keeping people off airplanes because their name starts with "Muhammed." The same for all this "spying." Are you really going to catch anybody by screening 10 million emails a day?, and even if you can pinpoint to one person, just how stupid will they be anyway regards what messages they send?

Instead, let's inspect everything coming into America at her ports and strenghten our infrastructure. It's about time.

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» "an effective outcome..." Posted by: hurricane hugo
Information is power
Posted by: chomsky on Aug 5, 2007 2:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Al qaeda is no threat to the neocons... In fact, it is the perfect tool to further their agenda; be it called "New American Century" or "New World Order"...

Anti-war/corporations/globalism american citizens are. For the neocons, today's activits will be tomorrow's "terrorists".

An while a minority of people in congress are apparently trying to do something; a majority plays along the Bush administration...

So, if you expect some positive changes... Not gonna happen... Just look at this ACLU news.

Maybe the only hope is "Kick them all out"...

And don't expect any real support from other countries; they are following on the same path. In my country, France, they just elected a (more sneaky) clone of Bush: Sarkozy... The dialog is the same: "We" love big corporations (more than our citizens); the main media loves the government (both very close friends); etc...

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» RE: Information is power Posted by: mommy64
Brock
Posted by: mbrock on Aug 5, 2007 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to disabuse ouselves of the notion that anything this administration does is ideological. It's not. It's business. And it's the oil business in particular.
Since 1998 the price of oil has risen from $12 to $75. That means that Americans who own oil wells in this country (5 million barrels a day) are making about 120 billions dollars a year just from selling oil--not bad when compared to 20 billion during the Clinton administration.
If Sadaam had been allowed to increase his oil production, as he planned, the price would have gone down even lower bankrupting American oil producers whose older "stripper" wells only average 3 to 8 barrels a day (compared to thousands of barrels a day for Iraqi and Saudi wells). Remember that Texas lost about 1/4th of its oil wells from low production in the 90's. The oil administration could not let that continue!

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» RE: Brock Posted by: mommy64
» RE: Brock Posted by: mombot
» Some what tangential... Posted by: bob t
THE REAL TREAT IS INSIDE NOT OUTSIDE
Posted by: common intelligence on Aug 5, 2007 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the article is basically OK. Yet, as long as the truth of 911 is continually regarded as terrorists , I.E. al Qaeda, without addressing the phenomenal amount of evidence the points to the true conspiracy that points to the real pirates that have taken over the U.S. within, any concerns about spying on Americans are a distractive tactic, smoke screen if you will.

Since before 911 the neocon pirates took Washington without a shot. All hard evidents pretaining to 911, wtc7, flight 97 etc. have been burried under the guise of national security. What that all really means is the secret security is of the neocon piracy that took our country.

All these bastards are domestic enemies of the Real United States. Let them spy on, for the real patriots, such as Lt. Watada, will be the ones that will be able to make the truth stick. Now the question is only "What are each of you going to do?"
Those of you whom have sworn to protect the U.S....from domestic enemies , traitors and treats to America, why are you not doing your duty, and stop supporting the corporations and neocons, (not just Bushies).

You all have a duty. Now do it or you are all traitors , too.

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» Yur so smart Posted by: gary_7vn
Why not get rid of them all?
Posted by: rroffel on Aug 5, 2007 11:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the Democrats and the Republicans are lying in bed together and the White House has refused to adhere to the law of the land (other than that of King George and his "Base"), why not impeach them all? While you're at it, why not fire all of those Fundamentalist appointees who work at the White House? They are as much of a problem as the leaders.

Bill Clinton could get impeached for having an affair how does Bush and company get away with removing civil liberties, arresting citizens without warrants, declaring unilateral war against nations and NOT GET IN TROUBLE?

I believe that the people of the US deserve better, but they have to grow a backbone first.

Impeachment of the Bush Imperial Government and a clearing up of the Regents University appointees at the White House (all 150 of them) are a good start. I know that you can do it, but time's a-wasting.

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» RE: Why not get rid of them all? Posted by: Logic's Edge
Stupid Republicans
Posted by: vkobaya on Aug 5, 2007 2:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone dumb enough to believe that Bush is spying only on Al Quata is dumb enough to be a Republican. The real reason why Reagan freed all the mental hospital inmates was to have enough supporters to compete with the Democratic Party. Bush not only is spying on the American people, he is spying on our political leaders which is why the Republicans often vote for measures that don't even seem in their interests. But also explains why so many Democrats are terrified of the Bush administration. He has enough on them to send them up river for a long, long time. Only the cleanest of politicians, Kucinich and Barbara Lee dare oppose Bush when he wants them to grovel and brown nose his ass. You say Kucinich will never be president, but far, light years more certain than that is he will never be wealthy. I don't care if he likes to roll in the grass while nibbling dandelions with the bunnies, that man is unquestionably the best man to be president of America.

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Developed to spy on the Elected lawmakers...
Posted by: Bearzerker on Aug 5, 2007 3:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... to dig up the dirt on them and to blackmail them into submission while also paying them peanuts to keep them happy is only my guess...

The system is so broken, so corrupted, so overpopulated with the truly uneducated, that I don't see how anything can be corrected...

Smaller is better because its easier to manage... and management under the current scenario is a truly a national nightmare... delegate as much as you can to the states and simplify the system before the system simplifies you!

obfuscation... they invented it as a practice in law... and the lawmakers sit in government!

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Spying?
Posted by: mommy64 on Aug 5, 2007 3:52 PM   
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Interestingly, Christopher Bertran presented a Guardian column; additionally, many thoughtful contributors participated, as within these fora. A contributor, Rockwell, provided comments regarding the United States, its global regard, as well as comments about the Iraq war. Rockwell's contribution was addressed eloquently throughout the forum with diverse contributions. Spying?!? "Would they if they could," is not spying. Rather, it was a frantic, although ineloquent, attempt to assist the Bush Administration, to prevent it from the tragic mistake it was about to make. Indeed did.

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STILL SPINNING 9/11
Posted by: johndoraemi on Aug 5, 2007 4:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The 9/11 attacks were less a failure of intelligence than a failure of political attention by Bush's national security team." --Robert Parry

Given what Parry acknowledges: acts, decisions, agency by the Bush "national security team" (sic) why must it be deemed a "failure?"

The "failure" part is Parry's personal opinion, and one that I certainly do not share.

Why not investigate Bush's "national security team"(sic) and expose the Project for a New American Century call for a "catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor?"

Oh, that's right. If Parry went there, he wouldn't have his column reproduced here on Alternet.

The argument that 9/11 was a "failure" rather than a deliberate coup d'tat fails upon scrutiny.

Was it a failure that Bush was pulled out of his hotel in Genoa Italy in July 2001 because of a warning of an "Al Qaeda" attack using hijacked airliners to crash into the G8 summit there?

Did they forget all about that 2 months later, as if it never happened?

Did they "ignore" dozens of warnings from dozens of intelligence services/nations telling them expressly that the Genoa type attack would happen inside the USA?

No. They ignored nothing.

Spinning this as if this treasonous regime is incapable of allowing terrorist attacks for its own benefit is just plain absurd. False flag terrorism is real. It happens.

If you don't believe this, you just don't want to know. It's your belief system that is at fault, not the facts of the case, of which there are thousands that support my thesis, and the view of the 9/11 Truth Movement who were 70 million in number at last official poll in 2005.

The Facts of 9/11

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» Travel directions.. Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Your travel directions.. Posted by: russianblue1
Nixon Was Impeached For Domestic Spying
Posted by: fanny666 on Aug 6, 2007 2:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DC NEVER INTENDED TO “SPY” on BOGUS “Al-QAEDA”...
Posted by: Hal on Aug 6, 2007 4:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To make that case in any way as Parry does here is blatant nonsense.

In other words:

The way Robert Parry’s column is framed is wholly illegitimate. Parry buys and sells the old Washington–MSM lie that a so-called “Al-Qaeda” threat is real when “Al-Qaeda” was virtually created by CIA and pumped by western elites from a feeble old CIA asset better know as Osama “Tim Osman” Bin Laden and Osama’s red herring 911 operation on down.

Cooked “Al-Qaeda” cells have also been gimcracked by CIA, Israeli intelligence, etc from the Mid East to anywhere “al-Qaeda” needs to stir up trouble. Of course, all of this to keep the sheep on the reservation.

The only other poster to state the obvious as to how 911 COVER-UP was used to institute an Orwellian “war on terror” spy state was ridiculed by others who clearly don’t know the extent of their own brainwash and the Kool-Aid behind it.

Indeed the only reason to fabricate “enemies” when the U.S. has created real ones with CIA destruction of 20 democracies since WW2 (as millions died) is clear.

This is about another garden-variety power grab by organized corporate crime to promote an even more radical version of a blood money and unconstitutional Fascist spy state. One foisted to execute generations old Big Oil agendas.

Big Oil trillions at stake under Eurasia and the Mid East are motive. And at $12 billion a month for going on a trillion dollars all told, the costs in blood and treasure are manifest.

This has always been about public “war on terror” for private profit.

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25ghostcommander
Posted by: 25ghostcommander on Aug 6, 2007 9:38 PM   
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I'll betcha that all of this data mining is going almost directly to the RNC Boiler Room to be used for criminal reasons on business's and individuals.

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How convenient: al Qaeda was created by the CIA
Posted by: writer33 on Aug 7, 2007 2:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the fear-spreading which has been the prime objective of the Bush presidency in its entirety conveniently ignores the fact that al Qaeda is in part, or in whole a creation of OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, thanks to the CIA!

A report from last March by Deanna Spingola from a 20-part series: terror for profit, points out:

"The CIA created al Qaeda, the database and instigated Islamic fundamentalism by training 100,000 fundamentalist Muslim mujahadeen. Zbigniew Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly authorized $500 million to create an international terrorist movement that would spread Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and 'destabilize' the Soviet Union..."

"The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years poured $4 billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan (Taliban means student). Young zealots were sent to the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, where future members of al Qaeda were taught 'sabotage skills' - terrorism."

In other words, our own government created a monster that likely is now out of control. And, now, according to Bush-speak, suddenly al Qaeda is the "enemy" on which the "war on terror" is based, but intentionally neglects to tell us the truth of our direct CIA involvement in it! Like a self-serving prophecy, Bush-Cheney are creating the very enemies they claim are out to murder us.

It is a foreign policy of preemptive terror on other countries that refuse to play by our rules of shoving democracy down their throats, or else! And it handsomely rewards the war profiteers while we impose unjustified death and destruction on other lands, and abuse our military power and toss in some American lives as sacrificial lambs to make sure the job is done so Big Oil, Halliburton and other war profiteers can put Bush's blood money in their filthy bank accounts.

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Bush et al are unpatriotic
Posted by: packofwolves on Aug 8, 2007 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush and his administration attempt to destroy anyone who is actually being patriotic (by exercising their rights and advocating for legal and due process) when in fact, they are the very ones who are unpatriotic. They have trampled on and sorely disrespected our Constitution, continue to secretly strip us of our rights as American Citizens while lying to us, they started an illegal and disastrous war through lies, and continue to torture detainees (who are, in many cases, innocent even though there is NEVER an excuse for torture). They even interpret law to suit themselves...but even worse, do not believe the law applies to them. This administration has been and continues to be a total disgrace to our country and an insult to each and every American citizen as well as to each and every human being. Bush and his cronies have created a world of fear, one that is sliding toward WWIII, and the end of life as we know it. Americans are hated throughout the world for our arrogance and disrespect of others and that arrogance and disrespect is embodied in Bush and his cronies. They are what is wrong with this country. They are greedy, thoughtless, morones who do not care for anything other than themselves.
IMPEACH BUSH AND HIS CRONIES. THEY ARE INSULTS TO OUR COUNTRY AND TO DEMOCRACY ITSELF.

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» And Impeach Scalia Posted by: bob t
As I've said before. . .
Posted by: NamVeT on Aug 8, 2007 12:27 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are screwed. Republicans have spent literally the last 30-40 years setting this up. We have ALREADY become a facist state. Our freedoms are gone. King georgie halibush & company will be running this country (OUR COUNTRY) from now on. No more elections...PERIOD! And you can definately bet your ass that every response here on Alternet and other similar websites have already been tracked to your home or business address. They are waiting for the next "terrorist event" before officially declaring MARTIAL LAW. Our time to act is probably over by now. Arm yourselves and get ready to defend whatever you have left.. including your life....

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Oil
Posted by: mommy64 on Aug 9, 2007 5:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For Raul Hilberg
Oh, they knew where to plant
the concentration camps,
where folks didn't like Nazis,
where folks detested Stalinists.
They fired engines filled with gas.
They pulled the shades in Poland,
gathered their spades,
and dug.
The young boy stood near the edge
of their swirling pond.
A crocodile emerged, and snapped.
But there was more than one boy.
There was more than one crocodile.
When it was over, when they were through,
the land divided, desolate,
their hides intact,
they slithered off to Argentina,
where a young boy stood near the edge
of their swirling pool,
where a crocodile yawned.
There was more than one boy.
There were many crocodiles.

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Over in the UK
Posted by: Cruella on Aug 11, 2007 8:15 AM   
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Same shit, different dude. Makes me really mad, we also have a new regulation to stop soldiers in Iraq from blogging or podcasting...

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rita
Posted by: ressless on Aug 11, 2007 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Four years ago, I knew for a fact that my phone and my parents' were being tapped by the local life-style police. I called the phone company and was told that "if they have a court order, we can't tell you, and if they don't have a court order, they're doing it illegally, and we can't tell you."

Then the phone company representative spoke for police everywhere and said, "IF YOUR PHONE IS BEING TAPPED, YOU MUST BE DOING SOMETHING WRONG." And it is that attitude, not international terrorism, that will bring America to her knees.

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