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Rights and Liberties

The Rest of the Story: a Response to Stephen Pizzo

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted January 31, 2007.


What Pizzo misses is that a comprehensive immigration debate should include the effects of trade policies, reforming the World Bank, and providing debt relief to poorer countries.
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Editor's note: this is one of two pieces in a point/ counterpoint format. Please see Stephen's Pizzo's argument here.

Just about everyone agrees that our immigration system is a train wreck, but we're divided over how to go about fixing it. One of the reasons it's been so hard to agree on a policy is that the arguments surrounding the issue are often more emotional than grounded in fact, and the result is that it can be difficult to even agree to the terms of the debate.

Stephen Pizzo's essay on immigration is a perfect example. The great irony of the piece -- the punch line for anyone who followed the policy debates last year -- is this: After devoting considerable column inches to the evils of "comprehensive" immigration reform, Pizzo offers up his preferred solution to the problem, which turns out to be … yes, comprehensive immigration reform.

For 25 paragraphs, Pizzo describes comprehensive reform as a neocon plot to destroy America's working class, a brilliant scheme to sucker those overly empathetic Democrats onto a path that will ultimately separate them from the "very people they claim should vote Democrat [sic]." Then, taking a populist stance, he argues that all those morons in Washington are making things too complex, and he has a simple solution based on good old-fashioned horse sense: We could just have a guest worker program; a database that allows employers to check on potential workers' legal status; some tougher laws for employers; stepped up enforcement of those laws and, grudgingly or not, an opportunity for undocumented immigrants who have put five years into the American workforce to get a Green Card and then "get in line" for permanent status "behind those who followed the rules in the first place."

Those are, of course, the meat and bones of the various proposals for "comprehensive" immigration reform that bounced around in Congress last summer (which got quite a bit of bipartisan support in the Senate but couldn't be reconciled with the bill passed by hard-liners in the House). I'll concede that Pizzo's version of comprehensive reform isn't quite as comprehensive as the proposals cooked up in DC. He leaves out the most popular provisions -- beefed up border security, tougher penalties for immigrants who commit serious crimes, federal money for health care and law enforcement in the states with the largest immigrant populations and provisions requiring immigrants to pay any back taxes they owe, pay a fine for having broken the law, study English and have an understanding of American civics before getting on the back of that line.

The details might vary, but the approach favored by Pizzo and, as he says, George W. Bush and La Raza (along with the majority of Congressional Democrats, the NAACP and forward-looking unions like UNITE HERE!) is basically the same. The internal incoherence of Pizzo's argument makes it hard to know what he thinks "comprehensive immigration reform" means when he writes that it'll drive the left to its "inevitabl[e] end in excess."

For progressives, the more comprehensive the better; when we talk about immigration we should also talk about how our trade and other economic policies influence its flows. We should talk about how reforming the World Bank and the IMF and giving debt relief to the poorer countries in our hemisphere might decrease the number of migrants at the source.

In Congress, those who oppose a comprehensive approach put a premium on enforcement -- they want to make it a felony to be or even to aid an illegal immigrant; they want mass deportations of (at least a large chunk of) the estimated 12 million undocumented aliens already here; they want to dispatch (more) federal troops to the Southern border; build fences and detention centers and do whatever possible to make things tough for the immigrants themselves. (Some proposals, like that made by John Cornyn (R-TX) and Jon Kyl (R-AZ) are hybrids; heavy on enforcement, there's a big fence involved, but it also contains a guest worker program).

An analysis by the decidedly un-empathetic and illiberal Heritage foundation concluded that enforcement-only simply hasn't worked (something I discussed at length here):

Increased border enforcement has only succeeded in pushing immigration flows into more remote regions. That has resulted in a tripling of the death rate at the border and, at the same time, a dramatic fall in the rate of apprehension. As a result, the cost to U.S. taxpayers of making one arrest along the border increased from $300 in 1992 to $1,700 in 2002, an increase of 467 percent in just a decade.

Pizzo's analysis of the politics of immigration is as problematic as his take on the policy. He calls it the "GOP's comprehensive immigration reform" and makes much of the fact that Bush supports it. But the comprehensive approach -- dubbed "amnesty" by the organized anti-immigration movement -- is tearing apart the conservative coalition. The issue lays bare the huge gap between the patrician, corporatist wing of the GOP and the nationalist and socially conservative rank-and-file, who have long been in bloody revolt over their Fearless Leader's approach to immigration.


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Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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Yeah, let's do that!
Posted by: xbj on Jan 31, 2007 12:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's reform trade policies, reform the World Bank, and boost the economies for our neighbors to the south...

...right AFTER we build a fence and man it with all the troops brought back home! from the Mideast debacle. So we can let a manageable wave of immigrants in every ten years and then shut the floodgates down and give them time to assimilate completely. Like every other wave of immigrants before them.

When the surge never stops, you will never ever see assimilation into an American melting pot culture. What you will see is conversion to an Hispanic one.

Which is already occurring at a logarithmic rate. Which is precisely why most of America is up in arms.

Manage the rate periodically, don't stop it. With the money we've already spent pissing away to BushCo cronies in Iraq, not to mention the lost troops, we could have built a heckuva fence, Brownie.

How does such an act show love for your neighbor?

Simple. No one gains if America is turned into a Latin American economy, from all of Latin America coming here. Let's keep America as it is so that people from the south will still want to come here. If immigration is not controlled, it will only end when the US is poorer than the south.

The Middle Class in America is already disappearing... America is already well on its way to being a fascist dictatorship controlled third world country.

It has to end, and end now.

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» RE: Yeah, let's do that! Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Yeah, let's do that! Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Yeah, let's do that! Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yeah, let's do that! Posted by: Old Skeptic
Great piece!
Posted by: jules_siegel on Jan 31, 2007 4:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The best I've ever read on immigration. Thanks for giving this to us.

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But oner caveat...
Posted by: jules_siegel on Jan 31, 2007 5:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Holland is superbly well-informed and persuasive, but I feel he doesn't pay enough attention to the basic issue of how illegal immigrants enable the American slave economy. It's not whether Americans should be doing these jobs, but, rather, if anyone should be doing them. It's sad that Crider has become a ghost town, but its people -- well-to-do and poor alike -- were in some measure thriving on the misery of a new kind of scab.

It's ingenuous to argue that Reagan killed the labor movement, not illegal immigration. We have to consider also whether or not the new anti-labor policies would have been quite as successful without the vast pool of desperately poor and hungry immigrants. Other factors were also involved, such as the entrance of women in great numbers to the labor market. That's a taboo topic, though.

Ultimately, I believe that labor unions killed themselves because they failed to understand the effects of better education and increased prosperity on the labor market. Although better education should have improved worker awareness, it also had the effect of making them more susceptible to union-busting arguments. When people become more prosperous, they often tend to become more conservative, because now they have something to lose.

Big business successfully used small property owners in California to foment the Reagan revolution, beginning with Proposition 13. These people did not want to pay taxes to support schools that did not provide them with any direct personal benefit because they did not themselves have school-age children. Now big business is playing both sides of the immigration game. On the one hand, anti-immigration policies rally the Republican base. On the other, illegal immigration provides an endless source of cheap, defenseless workers.

Although I've been a Yellow Dog Democrat all my life, in my youth I worked in industrial relations for a time before I became a journalist covering the counter culture. I created some of the propaganda that eventually helped produce the current overwhelmingly anti-labor neo-fascist American political and social environment. So I understand the tactics and strategies very well at all levels of the game.

Now, living in Mexico, I am watching the same process unfold. López-Obrador lost because he failed to understand or use the power of modern media, not because of fraud. His post-electoral fraud hysteria was a fraud in itself whose main effect was to crush an intra-party rebellion triggered by his inept campaign performance. He knew that he lost on the count because his own exit polls showed him losing by half a percentage point. Somehow the public was not informed of that at the time.

Justo May Correa, El Universal's very astute correspondent in Cancun wrote after the Mexican election that it was a victory for those who have everything over those who have nothing. There's a lot of truth in that, but the more important truth, I believe, is that it was the victory of those who mastered modern media manipulation over those who refused to learn how to neutralize them, much less master the techniques themselves.

The strong don't always win. The weak don't always lose. But the shrewd always seem to come out on top.

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» Oops. Joshua, help! Posted by: jules_siegel
» RE: Oops. Joshua, help! Posted by: Joshua Holland
A whole dollar? Wow!
Posted by: cmaciain on Jan 31, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oooh, a whole dollar. Meat packing should be paying at least $12.00 a hour to START. That's what it was paying in the 1970's! And yes, plenty of legal Americans will do these jobs but don't blame them for wanting a living wage. How much is Cider paying? How is their insurance? Are they union? Cider should be down on its knees from fines for hiring illegals and the town should be damn ashamed of itself for not demanding this company follow the law. I'm sorry it's a ghost town. Maybe had they insisted the company follow the law, they'd have a more vibrant economy.

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» RE: A whole dollar? Wow! Posted by: cmaciain
Yes, the more "comprehensive" the better, but
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Jan 31, 2007 6:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we need to begin somewhere. If more (as opposed to no) workplace enforcement had been in place 15 years ago, most of these immigrants wouldn't have been in Crider to suffer the effects of the crackdown. Pizzo shouldn't have been so selective in what he quoted - but this piece promises in the header to "include the effects of trade policies, reforming the World Bank, and providing debt relief to poorer countries"! Well, most likely I wouldn't disagree, I guess - but have to guess because it doesn't include those things.

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So???? Where are the specifics on the reform you mentioned....
Posted by: Prophit on Jan 31, 2007 7:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
World Bank, IMF, all of it. Where are the reforms you suggested in the title, because frankly, if there are reforms it willnot only help Mexicans, but Americans as well.

Argentina and other South American nations did those reforms and are now thriving and want the US and all these banking interests to leave the country and leave them alone so they can continue their march to financial health.

If you don't think these banking and oil interests aren't the problem your wrong.... Instead of fighting each other which is what they prefer, we should be fighting them like Argentina did.

I wrote that back when Argentina was on the edge of civil war over the IMF's control of their banking and their financial life. It destroyed the middle class in less than 3 months in that country and I said then "they are practicing on Argentina what they plan on doing to the US". I was prophetic as hell about that one. Of course, I got laughed at, but no one is laughing now. TOO LATE OF COURSE. We could have done something back then.

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Importing people used to corruption, disease, crime, and violence
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jan 31, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is not the answer. The more people we get into the USA and Europe, that are used to corruption, crime, and violence as a way of life the harder it will be to keep the country safe, get them assimiliated, and more opportunities from the increase in crime. A person from Mexico, Russia, South America, etc think nothing of 'paying off' a mobster, stealing from a place of business, will not cooperate with police, and thinks their vote is worthless. The problem is magnified when they themselves are "illegal" and therefore less likely to report crime, get proper medical treatment, or participate in civil society. How does this help our democracy, how does this help our crime statistics, how does this help our health, how does this help our environment, how does this help our society?

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What's Missing Here?
Posted by: VisionQuest on Jan 31, 2007 7:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did Pizzo fail to address how U.S. foreign policy, specifically economic and trade policy, is one of the driving forces behind illegal immigration to the U.S.? Absolutely. But, of course, there is no serious immigration reform proposal pending in Congress that will in any way alter those policies. The Heritage Foundation doesn't want to change IMF and World Bank policy--they simply want a continued flood of cheap laborers with no rights.

Increasing penalties applied to illegal immigrants without simultaneously addressing how our foreign policy undermines the economies of the countries that produce those immigrants is indeed short-sighted. But reducing barriers to entry without addressing relevant foreign policy issues is equally short-sighted. I think Holland and Pizzo are essentially two sides of the same coin on this issue, and neither provides a concrete, specific set of comprehensive reforms that will in any way alter the current status quo. How unfortunate.

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PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS:
Posted by: rwa on Jan 31, 2007 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
U.S. industry is still investing in R&D after all; it is just not hiring Americans to do the research and development. U.S. manufacturers still make things, only less and less in America with American labor. U.S. manufacturers still hire engineers, only they are foreign ones, not American ones.

In other words, everything is fine for U.S. manufacturers. It is just their former American work force that is in the doldrums. As these Americans happen to be customers for U.S. manufacturers, U.S. brand names will gradually lose their U.S. market. U.S. household median income has fallen for the past five years. Consumer demand has been kept alive by consumers' spending their savings and home equity and going deeper into debt. It is not possible for debt to forever rise faster than income.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts09302006.html

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» Buy CITGO gas Posted by: rwa
Unlawful Combatant:
Posted by: rwa on Jan 31, 2007 8:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biggest problem created by uncontrolled illegal immigration is wage suppression. According to economics professor George Borjas, immigration reduces the average annual earnings of U.S. born men by an estimated $1,700, or roughly 4%. If that reduction is applied to the roughly 135 million employed Americans, that reduces aggregate annual worker income by $230 billion, or $0.23 trillion. That's roughly 2% of our $12 trillion GDP. That's a loss in consumer spending of $230 billion (less taxes). Given that our entire GDP growth in 2005 was $384 billion, this is a significant amount. Considering that consumer spending is approximately 70% of GDP, that makes the "growth" in consumer spending around $269 billion.

Again, the loss of that $230 billion is no small amount. And it is also $230 billion less money that could have been taxed, costing the Federal government anywhere between $36-55 billion per year. (Increasing the taxable income of a single taxpayer making $35,000/year by $1700 increases Federal income tax by $413. Increasing taxable income of a married taxpayer filing making $35,000/year by $1700 increases Federal income tax by $267. Multiplying these numbers by 135 million amounts to $55.7 billion and $36 billion, respectively.)

Right-wingers will argue that this wage suppression is offset by business profits, and that these profits fuel investment. But investment capital is OVER-abundant at present. Increasing this excess even further will not result in more capital investment. It will result in higher CEO salaries, further overinvestment in the stock market, and further investment in foreign production facilities, the latter of which puts even further downward pressure on American wages.

Furthermore, business profits don't fuel consumer spending. And consumer spending is the engine that drives our economy, not investment. Without consumer spending, there are no returns on investment. And if no returns are anticipated on investment, no investment takes place.

The immigration-fueled reduction in wages does NOT help our economy. It hurts it. It reduces aggregate consumer income and the consumer spending it finances. The reduction in consumer spending reduces consumer production demand, further reducing demand for the labor to provide that production. The reduction in labor demand drives down employment and wages. The resultant labor demand reduction further reduces aggregate consumer income and further reduces consumer purchasing power.

As consumer buying power declines, so do investment opportunities, since those opportunities are created by consumer demand for production. Thus the increased profits resulting from reduction in labor costs create even more excess capital, while reducing investment opportunities still further.

Does anyone really think that wage suppression is "good" for the economy? Doesn't someone have to purchase the goods produced for business to profit? Won't reducing consumer income also reduce consumer goods purchasing? Won't a decline in consumer goods purchasing reduce business revenues and reduce potential profits? Once again, is immigration-fueled reduction in worker/consumer income really "good" for the economy?

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» Borjas Posted by: Joshua Holland
Yet another loss of focus
Posted by: Boomerang on Jan 31, 2007 9:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's thinking like this that makes it so liberals look so idiotic and clueless in elections. Why can't anyone just shut up for a second and say "We're going to deal with illegal immigration by enforcing the laws," period. Don't tack on a whole other argument about the poor defenseless third world victims. Americans don't care, and when you start talking like this, the voters tune out.

You want your candidates to win an election, stop pandering to every bleeding heart cry of victimhood in the world.

We're going to enforce the laws, period. Just say that, win the argument, get elected, and then start talking about "trade reform" or some other safe way of saying it. Getting overly involved in every liberal cause is what Democrats look like a bunch of special interest chieftains rather than an organized party.

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» RE: Yet another loss of focus Posted by: cmaciain
(Alternate title:) Hell with the environment, let's suck up to immigrants!
Posted by: Pat Kittle on Jan 31, 2007 9:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fighting global warming's fine, if we can be PC about it.

But if billions of people want to move to hyperconsumersville, by golly, cram 'em in!

And don't even suggest that their 3rd world birthrates may be the worst possible combination with their 1st world appetites.

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Solidarity: Which side are you on?
Posted by: josueencuentro on Jan 31, 2007 11:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry. You aren't a liberal or a progressive if you can only grudgingly and with teeth griding accept reforms that would provide millions of the hardest working and poorest families in our country with the basic legal rights that the rest of us take for granted.

You also aren't a liberal if you set one group of disposessed workers against another, in this case Blacks against immigrants. Livable wages, workplace enforcement, right to organize, universal health care, civil rights enforcement... these are struggles that unite us, and that could improve our lives. Infighting, scapegoating, hateful "enforcement" against immigrants will not do so. Division is a tool of those who wish to oppress.

Liberals don't accuse other liberals (with no evidence, other than character assisination) of taking a position on an issue because we "fear of being seen as sissies" or because of our "over-developed empathy glands."

Mr. Pizzo says he is a liberal (at least on some issues), but the arguments he uses here are the same ones applied by the white, male reactionaries of past generations who wanted to keep Blacks and women out of trade unions.

One more point. Because the President is so (properly) unpopular among Alternet's readers, Mr. Pizzo finds it convenient to set him up as the protagonist of immigration reform, with Democrats going along as some did with the Iraq war. Not exactly. Despite some nice words every few months and encouraging statements in support of the immigration bill when it passed the Senate last year (with the support of almost all Democrats and a minority of Republicans), President Bush hasn't lifted a finger in support of immigrants since he became President. In fact, He supported the anti-immigrant House bill that caused massive demonstrations last Spring, and his administration has lately taken to nasty "enforcement" actions such as the Swift raids.

The biggest and strongest voices for pro-immigrant reform are not Bush or the Neocons. They are the immigrants themselves and those--such as many major unions and community groups--who represent them. You may remember the immigrants. They are the ones clearing your tables, picking your crops, building your houses, caring for your children, and cleaning your offices. Did you happen to see (or take part in) the marches and rallies last Spring when, for once, millions of immigrants themselves took center stage in the debate about their future? Like it or not, they are here, they aren't going anywhere, and they will be part of our future.

Whether you choose to call yourself a liberal or a neocon, if you want to be on the right side of history, join the side that's working for justice for the disposessed. That's the liberal side.

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RE: The Rest of the Story
Posted by: Sam Thornton on Jan 31, 2007 11:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joshua, after a quick read of this excellent piece and Pizzo's, I can't really see where you're all that far apart. Both you, Pizzo, and most of those who've commented identify, essentially the same problems, if in slightly different terms. All that remains is to formulate solutions that effectively and humanely address the problems.

There seems to be a similar congruence between the interests of Americans who are seeing their economic security eroded, and the so-called "illegal aliens" (I prefer the term, "economic refugee") whose economic security is virtually non-existent, in that both sets of problems spring from the same set of causes.

I can't cite a source and I understand polling data is not dispositive, but in most polls I've looked at over the last couple of months regarding the immigration issue, while the issue of "economic refugees" is seen as a serious problem, about 64 percent of Americans surveyed believe there should be some path toward citizenship available to those now in the country illegally because of economic hardship in their home counties. This struck me as a hopeful sign that most Americans seem to have a common-sense view of the situation and are likely to welcome effective and humane solutions.

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» RE: The Rest of the Story Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
The Debate continues ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland on Jan 31, 2007 2:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pizzo and I have another exchange over in Peek.

-Joshua H

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Roy Beck
Posted by: roy@numbersusa.com on Feb 2, 2007 6:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Holland gets and then misses the point of what has happened after the raids in Georgia.

Yes, a $1 an hour raise was enough to get the interest of local native (mostly Black) workers but not enough to keep many of them in the meatpacking house once they experienced the working conditions.

But surely Holland doesn't think the answer is to leave those conditions the same and just leave the jobs to foreign workers who will put up with the conditions.

American labor history has shown repeatedly that if Washington doesn't flood a local labor market with foreign workers, tight labor conditions will result in working conditions and wages improving until Americans start taking -- and keeping the jobs.

This happened before in a big way in the meatpacking industry. I wrote about this in my 1996 book for W.W. Norton & Co., titled The Case Against Immigration (which most reviewers described as the liberal argument for lower immigration). You can read the book for free now at http://www.numbersusa.com.

After decades of keeping the unions out, paying squat wages and running the most unsafe industry in America, the meatpackers in the late 1920s had to start retaining their immigrant workers and attracting their native-born American children because Congress reduced annual immigration to about a sixth of the previous Great Wave level.

Even during the Great Depression of the 1930s, working conditions improved. Due to low immigration and tight labor markets, unions grew stronger so that by the 1950s through the 1970s, meatpacking work was one of the safest and highest paid lower-skilled jobs in America. Until the renewal of mass immigration destroyed the jobs, meatpacking was paying its workers two and three times more than they are paid today in real wages.

Nearly all Americans with long roots in this country have been driven out of meatpacking jobs. If legal immigration is dramatically reduced and immigration laws are vigorously enforced, there will be many Americans who currently don't have jobs who will enter the meatpacking industry. But most of the benefit of lower immigration will accrue to the legal immigrants who are currently in those jobs and will see their incomes and working conditions improve dramatically.

There are 4,600,000,000 (4.6 BILLION) people in the world more impoverished than the average Mexican. The misery around the world cannot be alleviated -- even in the slightest noticeable way -- by keeping our most vulnerable Americans in poverty through high immigration.

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More comprehensive reform
Posted by: FearItself on Feb 10, 2007 7:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I particularly like this part:

"For progressives, the more comprehensive the better; when we talk about immigration we should also talk about how our trade and other economic policies influence its flows. We should talk about how reforming the World Bank and the IMF and giving debt relief to the poorer countries in our hemisphere might decrease the number of migrants at the source."

I would like to add to that another factor that influences the flows of these immigrants to our borders, aside from trade and economic policies, namely our decisions about war and peace. When we support military coups, anti-democratic paramilitaries and death squads overseas, particularly in the Caribbean and Latin America, we literally drive people out of their homes and into our country. Our experiences with Haiti, Nicaragua, Honduras and El Salvador, just to name a few, stand as indictments of the self-inflicted aspects of our immigration problem.

For a case study in this phenomena, check out this Washington Post profile of Dr. Juan Romagoza, a refugee, illegal immigrant and eventual US citizen from El Salvador, driven from his home by a murderous, torturing Salvadorian regime supported by your tax dollars. How many more are there just like him who came to our country illegally to escape death squads that we train and fund?

Yes, the immigration issue is very far-reaching and complicated. The more comprehensive the reform the better.

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