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Environment

Let's Kick Nuclear Power out of the Climate Change Debate

By Linda Gunter, AlterNet. Posted July 12, 2008.


Neither McCain nor Obama are willing to take nuclear energy off the table, but there are two important reasons why they should.
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Presidential hopefuls, Sen. John McCain and Sen. Barack Obama both lay claim to some modicum of environmentalism. Unlike in campaigns past, climate change has actually been mentioned -- albeit it is still lacking a high profile -- in debates, interviews and at town hall meetings. Both candidates have demonstrated an interest in the subject and profess an intention to prioritize the necessary energy fixes once in office. Yet neither is willing to take nuclear power out of the discussion when addressing potential solutions to the climate crisis. Neither candidate appears to recognize that nuclear power is the elephant in the room that can do more to impede progress on climate change than to advance it.

McCain's position is more hawkish. He recently announced a recommendation to build 45 new nuclear reactors in the U.S. Where would the money come from? A recent attempt to steal $500 billion in taxpayer subsidies for the nuclear industry contained in a so-called climate change bill was led by McCain's friend -- the less kind might say "poodle" -- Sen. Joe Lieberman. McCain was vocal in his support of the bill as long as the nuclear industry retained the lion's share of the handouts.

Obama has hedged on nuclear power, citing the problems of waste, security and proliferation but refuses to take it off the table. He argues that he is not a proponent of nuclear energy, but talks about supporting research into "advanced" reactor technology. (McCain of course makes the apples and oranges argument that nuclear is needed to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Unless I've missed something and our cars are powered by nuclear reactors, one has nothing whatever to do with the other.) Missing from both arguments are the two most likely obstacles to future nuclear power development in the U.S.: time and cost.

The time issue ought to knock nuclear energy out of the running without the need for further debate. Simply put, climate scientists estimate that we have perhaps five to seven years in which to make meaningful changes in our energy use to curb climate change. A nuclear reactor takes close to a decade to come on line -- an optimistic estimate that does not account for the construction delays we have already seen at new reactor sites in Finland and France. The Finnish reactor is more than two years behind schedule largely due to technical flaws in the early construction phase.

Policy analysts at MIT and elsewhere have estimated that in order for nuclear energy to contribute the necessary global reductions in greenhouse gas emissions to actually make a difference to climate change, 1,500 new reactors would need to come on line worldwide between 2010 and 2050. This equates to the unrealistic goal of one new reactor every two weeks. Some experts predict the need for 3,000 new reactors to abate CO2 emissions effectively -- or one new reactor every week. Wasting time on this kind of pipedream detracts from the implementation of meaningful solutions to climate change.

Addressing climate change fast and effectively requires a heavy emphasis on energy efficiency as well as a serious commitment to renewable energy. Studies show that the U.S. could furnish 2.5 times its current electricity yield from wind power alone in just 12 states. But there is no need for an "all eggs in one basket" approach. A combination of existing and emerging technologies, according to the new study, "Carbon-Free and Nuclear-Free: A Roadmap for U.S. Energy Policy," could deliver a nuclear-free and coal-free United States within several decades.

Nuclear is too slow but, more importantly, far too expensive. The industry's own estimates now put the price tag for a single new reactor at more than $12 billion. Depending on fluctuating interest rates, that figure could continue to soar. Moody's Investors Services Special Report issued in May 2008 projects that a power company announcing new reactor construction will see its credit rating downgraded by more than 25 percent because of the increasing financial risks that splitting the atom brings to a business profile.

This leaves the American taxpayer to foot the bill, continuing the federal subsidies pattern of decades. Experts at the Rocky Mountain Institute have calculated that the nuclear power industry has been supported by more than half a trillion dollars in federal subsidies since its inception. Renewable energy, by contrast, is a footnote, receiving just a 10 percent share of all energy spending over the past 60 years.


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See more stories tagged with: renewable energy, clean energy, solar, wind, obama, mccain, global warming, climate change, nuclear energy, nuclear

Linda Gunter is the co-founder of Beyond Nuclear.

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FMA in Massachusetts
Posted by: FMABBI on Jul 12, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, if the cars and trucks we drive were electric and we plugged them in to recharge - then the connection between nuclear electric energy and fueling transportation becomes very clear. Also, if we heat our homes with electricity, ditto.

Secondly, how does France do it? According to this article, France is in grave danger given all the problems nuclear poses because they decided long ago to go with nuclear power rather than fossil fuel for their electricity requirements. I think we should seriously ponder this. They are much more independent of foreign oil than we are - and therefore less vulnerable to the whims/ price of foreign oil.

Thirdly, nuclear energy is clean energy. When I saw "An Inconvenient Truth" a couple years ago, I came away thinking that nuclear energy might just be the way to go while we transition off fossil fuels (which the world is running out of anyway) to clean alternative energy. We still have a very long way to go before solar/ wind/ other sources of renewable clean energy replaces our dependence on oil for our modern American existence.

Fourthly, time is of the essence as you point out in the article. We need to change our fossil energy dependence NOW! So why not reduce and conserve our energy use across the board in every possible way, and build nuclear for electricity (put our people to work!) since we already have the technological know-how. Meanwhile (next 50-100 years), lets put our collective American brainpower to work by figuring out how to harness solar/ wind/ other (?) in a big enough way so that we can then "sunset" the nuclear infrastructure. I think we CAN get (almost completely) off oil within twenty years if we are aggressive - but of course, we need political leadership in order to make this happen.

I believe the consequences of not getting off our addiction to (foreign) oil are too dire if we simply refuse to consider the nuclear option - especially if we see it as a stop-gap, temporary measure to deal with the our near term challenges. We can figure out and solve the problems associated with nuclear energy. And if France can do it - WE can do it.

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» All energy is subsidized Posted by: themotie
» Crazy Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: Crazy Posted by: PA
» There is a reason Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: FMA in Massachusetts Posted by: PaulC
» RE: I answered this downwind Posted by: channing
» No, you didn't. Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Yes I did Posted by: channing
» RE: Thank you mjabele Posted by: channing
» RE: FMA in Massachusetts Posted by: PaulC
» Nonsense! Posted by: PaulC
» RE: FMA in Massachusetts Posted by: jeanna
» RE: FMA in Massachusetts Posted by: peacemom
» Well said! n/m Posted by: PaulC
» RE: FMA in Massachusetts Posted by: sunlakedude
Lets Kick CO2 out of The Climate Change Debate
Posted by: opmoc on Jul 12, 2008 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CO2 levels are currently much lower than the planet norm and higher levels would be much better for plant growth.

CO2's contribution to climate change is insignificant compared to changes in the Sun.

There is a real possibility that the planet will get much colder over the next 100 years - a period that a newborn baby now will live through.

Thorium nuclear power offers real potential in providing massive amounts of clean safe energy. It has the added bonus that plutonium from old nuclear missiles can be used as a fuel source so offers the potential of worldwide nuclear missile disarmament at the same time.

Of course our only problem in securing a safe future for our Children is the idiots in control of us.

India will go ahead anyway, whilst it will be the West that will freeze and starve to death.

People who think windmills and solar power will be sufficient to survive in the extremely harsh winters of northern climes are merely victims of environmental propaganda based on nonsense.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» WOW Posted by: Pdimlay
Consider the construction costs of $12 Billion per nuclear plant.
Posted by: Squarehead on Jul 12, 2008 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree completely with the author. I find particularly compelling her explanation of costs. Consider the construction costs of $12 Billion per nuclear plant. Consider the running cost of nuclear fuel, in an appreciating market. (15 tons of fuel rods (or their equivalent) every 5 years?) Consider the output of this station. Generous to say 1000 MW? Consider the current construction costs of say gas or oil or coal station; say £800 million?

Then bearing all these figures in mind, re-evaluate the costs of solar energy. And don't let your mind be clouded by the arguments of current energy and financial interests; "that solar is too expensive, that solar doesn't work at night, that solar will take too long to implement" All Bullshit

Read Richard Smalley, and his paper on 'The Terawatt Challenge' He points out, that for the near future needs of humanity, and if going down the nuclear route, we would need 9855 new nuclear stations. That industry just cannot produce the goods, even if they were not dishonest price-gougers (which they are) How many years would it take them to make that number of stations? And the cost? An eye-watering $118 Trillion. Just brutally un-affordable.

Smalley's contention is that solar is the only way forward, and that electricity produced from it will power our vehicles of the near future.

My small addendum to that is that Solar Thermal is the path for the immediate future (now to 20 years). I contend that the basic efficiency of solar vacuum heat pipes (~ 92%) makes the add-on bits of technology logical to implement. In German production, energy gathering capacity of 1000MegWatts would cost about $4 Billion and have a 25 - 40 year life (No fuel costs) In Chinese production, costs (and quality, at present) would be about 33% of that.

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Ain't gonna happen as long as you don't give 3rd and/or Independent parties a voice.
Posted by: maxpayne on Jul 12, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, only the two evils are being discussed. Ralph Nader and Cynthia Mckinney are against going nuclear but why aren't their names brought into this article? No wonder the so-called "Left" LOSES on every front !

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» Asinine. Posted by: Scientz
» I'm more concerned . . . Posted by: Scientz
» RE: I'm more concerned . . . Posted by: Quannah
» consider the source Posted by: edith
» Um, No. Posted by: edith
» RE: Um, Yes. Posted by: channing
I have not come to praise Nuclear Power but to bury it
Posted by: billgee on Jul 12, 2008 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where the hell do we put the waste for the next few thousand years

You cannot bury it deep enough!

Ready for Carbon Sequestration?

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political realities
Posted by: mwildfire on Jul 12, 2008 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1--our choices in the energy realm, as in any other, will be made by who gives the biggest bribes to Congress, Therefore, the deepest pockets win. Rational arguments are completely irrelevant.
2--Industries angling for huge subsidies from Congress set aside a little bit of money to pay people to surf the net and post arguments every time the subject of, for example, nuclear power come up.
3--From where come the utter nut case arguments you suddenly see a lot of, from my own sisters and from one of the posters above, stating that CO2 is only beneficial and falling, the world is cooling, perhaps soon they'll tell us gravity has been repealed and the price of gas is plummeting? Perhaps this is another result of the efforts of those who benefit by obscuring the public conversation.

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Peak Uranium
Posted by: Casey Burns on Jul 12, 2008 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One little minor technicality that has yet to enter the Nuclear Power debate is that we may be at or past "Peak Uranium". All the easy to extract uranium was extracted during the Cold War. Currently decommissioned nuclear bombs are the primary source for fuel. Currently there are 100 nukes being built worldwide besides the ones operating. It doesn't bode well for the future of this industry! Yet our politicians and planners keep bringing this up as a solution, instead of recognizing that nuclear power is a vestigial dinosaur.

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» RE: Peak Uranium Posted by: Pdimlay
» RE: Peak Uranium Posted by: pete1029
» RE: Peak Uranium Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Peak Uranium Posted by: channing
» RE: Peak Uranium Posted by: Casey Burns
» RE: Peak Uranium Posted by: daniel1982
Imlay
Posted by: Pdimlay on Jul 12, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
12 billion to build?
Do you environmentalist realize that your fear mongering over nuclear Holocaust and such are a huge contributor to that cost. Companies that get devalued by the risk of building nuclear is caused by the politics in America surrounding the nuclear industry, no one has built in a long time because of environmentalist and articles like these. Imagine if we didn't stop building nuclear power plants in the 80 we could have double the nuclear generation that exists today, and less coal and natural gas generation.

But no the environmentalist want to point at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl to demonize the nuclear industry.Three Mile island taught us that our reactor protection systems and public safety systems could handle a partial meltdown with no threat to public health. And we are not the Russians we don't have Russian designs. We have this this called a CONTAINMENT building which is meant to contain the effects of a nuclear accident, Chernobyl didn't have a containment building. Also if you understand the Nuclear physics behind the design differences between the US and Russian designs it is impossible to have the rapid increase in reactivity, in a US reactor, that was seen in Chernobyl.

Yes there is lots of nuclear waste sitting in spent fuel pools, but why is this? Well it has a little to do with a law passed by Carter Administration in the late 70's that outlawed the reprocessing of spent nuclear fuel in the US. This forced the Utilities to just sit on all this old waste, which still contains massive amounts of energy that could be reprocessed and used to generate more electricity.

If we had to build one reactor a week for whatever period of time quoted in this article to curb greenhouse gasses, how many windmills would that equate to? One reactor has an average output of 1000MW and last time I checked GE's best Windmill hand a 3MW output. that means we would need to put up 333 windmills a week sounds just as unreasonable as one reactor a week.


I believe our best solution to curbing greenhouse gasses is the use of Hydrogen fueled cars and nuclear power. Gas stations would be able to create large amounts of hydrogen locally at the stations through electrolysis. But this requires a lot of electricity. In steps Nuclear power to provide the electricity needed for electrolysis. Both have zero greenhouse gasses. I am for Wind and Solar but the technology is not to the point where it is the most viable solution to the problems we face, Nuclear Power is.

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» H2 for fuel is a fossil fuel Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Imlay Posted by: daniel1982
The 5-7 year "deadline" cited by the author...
Posted by: mjabele on Jul 12, 2008 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...refers to the amount of time we have available to BEGIN to reverse course in terms of fossil fuel use, not the time necessary to convert ENTIRELY to clean energy sources.

Were it the latter, we'd be doomed in any case. There's no way, except perhaps in the author's imagination, that we're going to convert our society entirely to solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal power over the next 5-7 years, regardless of how much we conserve. Countries like Germany and Denmark have invested far more effort than we in trying to do so over a timeframe longer than that, and aren't anywhere close yet.

In other words, the timeline isn't quite so unfavorable for nuclear power as the author would have us believe.

The author misleads at other levels as well. I'm not an engineer or an economist, but even I know that fossil fuels are used to generate power for activities other than driving cars. Some of those activities are pretty important in my view, by the way - maintaining/operating infrastructure like roads, trains, a telecommunications network, hospitals, etc. Others may disagree and feel that it's best to live entirely "off the Grid", but my own view of an ideal future society does encompass these activities, and I think it's important to make sure there's enough power available to support them. I'm a bit skeptical that solar, wind, and other non-nuclear renewable options will be sufficient, at least over the short term.

To me, a "mosaic" approach still seems best, with nuclear part of the equation, at least for the next several decades. After that, when we've implemented more stringent and sustainable conservation measures and ramped up solar and wind as more "muscular" options to support our ongoing power needs, nuclear can be gradually phased out again.

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» RE: Offgrid Posted by: Dboy
Nuclear Energy Cannibalism
Posted by: Cap'n Solar on Jul 12, 2008 7:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Energy cannibalism refers to an effect where rapid growth of an entire energy producing industry creates a need for energy that uses (or cannibalizes) the energy of existing power plants. Thus during rapid growth the industry as a whole produces no energy because new energy is used to fuel the embodied energy of future power plants. In the article “Thermodynamic Limitations to Nuclear Energy Deployment as a Greenhouse Gas Mitigation Technology” the necessary growth rate, r, of the nuclear power industry was calculated to be 10.5%. This growth rate is very similar to the 10% limit due to energy payback example for the nuclear power industry in the United States calculated in the same article from a life cycle analysis for energy.

These results indicate that any energy policies with the intention of driving down greenhouse gas emissions with deployment of additional nuclear reactors will not be effective unless the nuclear energy industry in the U.S. improves its efficiency. Simply put nuclear energy will not cut it. See Wikipedia on energy cannibalism

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Taking Nuclear off the table in the climate debate
Posted by: lavendula13 on Jul 12, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have hit the nail on the head; nuclear takes a decade to build, emissions reduction is needed now. On the flip side of that argument, alternative energy is unlikely to receive adequate funding, even in the current emergency (as declared by James Hansen), to replace coal and oil in the coming decade. This is the real motive force behind oil price spikes, at least among those in the know; peak oil meets peak demand, with nothing to act as a buffer.

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Sweet
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jul 12, 2008 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dude, Nuclear power is the way to go. Cleaner, efficient and not using expensive fossil fuels.

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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» RE: Sweet Posted by: Tatarize
the point is overshadowed by rather sloppy writing
Posted by: butler12 on Jul 12, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The idea that nuclear power should be used to try and reduce greenhouse gas emissions, needs to be looked at very skeptically, and one should not simply jump on the nuclear ban wagon because they think that in the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions that any technology will do. However this article has gotten lost in its own bias.

Firstly the article says that nuclear power will not diminish the United States reliance on oil because cars will not run on nuclear reactors. This is very disingenuous as if you have an electric car then nuclear power can be used to create the electricity. It is also not as if the everyone is going to drive a solar or wind powered car either.

Secondly the author mentions the blurring of the lines between civilian and military uses of nuclear reactors in other countries. However she fails to point out that the US already possess an incredible amount of nuclear weapons. Thus the building of new reactors within the US will not contribute to the nuclear weapon question as the US already posses them. And also these reactors are not going to come under the attacks that see mentions in relation to Israel’s attacks upon Iraq and Syria that she mention. However the terrorist problems, which are touched upon within the article, should be of concern.

Thirdly she likes to mention in dollar terms the amount of government subsidies that nuclear power has gotten and will need, however she does not offer up the amount of subsidies that renewable energies will need to become viable to offer the reader a comparison. In fact this entire article is missing all information on renewable energies in order to offer us a comparison to see if in fact nuclear energy is as bad an option as the author postulates.

While she states how many nuclear reactors would need to be built to provide the energy needs of the the US, then how many wind farms or solar power stations would need to be build to provide for America's energy needs. Also whilst it would no doubt take a long while to build the nuclear reactor, how long would it take to build the renewable technologies to such a capability to which it could remove the United States dependence on oil and coal?

I do not know any of the answers to this question and whether or not nuclear power is a viable alternative, which is why the article is so poor, as it offers me no ability to compare the alternatives.

It strikes my as simply preaching to the converted rather than trying to offer a convincing argument as to why nuclear power should not be considered and why renewable’s are a better alternative. If she wanted to show that nuclear really is not a good option then why not offer a direct comparison with the best other alternatives.

[« Reply to this comment] [