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Environment

What Does Obama's Victory Mean for Greens?

By David Roberts, Huffington Post. Posted June 6, 2008.


Obama's victory is the best thing that could have happened to greens, but perhaps not for the reasons you think.
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As everyone (with the possible exception of Hillary Clinton) is now aware, Barack Obama clinched the Democratic nomination for president on Tuesday. One question is now on the mind of every pundit and political player: what will this mean for the fight against climate change?

Except not really, so let me take a stab at it.

The short story goes like this: Obama's victory is the best thing that could have happened to greens, but perhaps not for the reasons you think.

It's not about policy

In part thanks to the early courage of John Edwards, all the major Dem candidates had excellent climate/energy proposals. All called for 80% greenhouse gas reductions by 2050 (with 100% of carbon credits auctioned), multi-billion dollar investments in clean energy and efficiency, and good-faith engagement with international climate negotiations.

Their plans differed in some details, but nothing as significant as mandates in health care. On paper, Dem candidates have been in the same laudable place on the issue. Their are some differences in their records, of course, and instances when their past votes or words have contradicted their current positions. But despite the inflated claims from various partisans, no Dem candidate has been entirely without sin or entirely without virtue on climate.

(It goes without saying that the common Dem ground is way, way out ahead of John McCain's stated positions and his record.)

Picking the best Dem candidate on climate/energy came down to three things:

  1. Who makes it the highest priority?
  2. Who can clarify the differences and articulate the case against John McCain?
  3. Who can get strong legislation passed when elected?

All all three counts, I think Obama's the guy.

Who makes it the highest priority?

It's clear that climate is not an animating, gut-level issue for ... well, for any national politician. That's not necessarily a condemnation. Climate change is somewhat abstract -- looming in the future, enormous, difficult to grasp on a human scale. Intellectually, plenty of Dem politicians are convinced it's a problem, but it doesn't inflame them like healthcare or education.That's true for Obama too, but in a way, it's true for Obama across the board.

There is a side of him that's professorial and somewhat emotionally distant. He considers things clinically. To him politics is a puzzle: who to talk to, what to say, what levers to pull, to get the policies that will solve America's problems.

This intellectualism can occasionally make him seem remote (or, to Bubbas, "elitist"), but it can play to the advantage of climate/energy, which is itself a huge, fascinating, and very urgent puzzle. When asked last December about the toughest choices he'd face in the White House, he said:

The issue of climate change. I've put forward one of the most aggressive proposals out there, but the science seems to be coming in indicating it's accelerating even more quickly with every passing day. And by the time I take office, I think we're going to have to have a serious conversation about how drastic steps we need to take to address it.

He gets the scope of the problem and he's applying his intellect to properly framing it and finding solutions that can command popular support. Throughout the race, he has subtly strengthened his positions and honed his rhetoric on climate/energy, probing for those places it connects with voters. He's trying to get it into their guts, something he's more capable of than his opponents.


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See more stories tagged with: environment, obama, global warming, climate change

David Roberts is assistant editor at Grist.

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and what about nuclear energy?
Posted by: Zenobia on Jun 6, 2008 5:40 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do Greens consider that to be green? I don't--I grew up in Pennsylvania. You know--Three Mile Island? Cows that lost all their hair? Accidents happen. Therefore, I do not support nuclear power as an ecologically sound option.

Obama, however, has taken big bucks from the nuclear power industry. (Search Obama and nuclear power in "Grist," the environmental magazine.) Call me jaded, but I think that means they are going to want some favors from the Big O in return. As a Green, that makes me nervous.

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Check out this Interactive US Energy Footprint Chart
Posted by: eredux on Jun 6, 2008 8:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out this Interactive US Energy Footprint Chart, an interactive United States Energy Consumption Footprint chart, illustrating Greenest States and more. This site has all sorts of stats on individual State energy consumptions, demographics and State energy offices.

http://www.eredux.com/states/

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Chernobyl was no worse than a coal fired power plant
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 11:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A friend of mine from Oak Ridge National Laboratory wrote to
me: "The reactor that had the accident at Chernobyl was very out-
of-date (1st generation) design that has to be precisely controlled
to prevent cooling water from boiling. Water carries away heat
and moderates far better than bubbles, and as bubbles form in
water, the reactor goes increasingly unstable. What caused
Chernobyl to blow its top was residual water in the core suddenly
going to high pressure steam and erupting into a steam explosion.
Since the building top was simply resting by its weight on the
walls, not a containment vessel at all, the steam explosion burped
the top off its position allowing outside air in, subsequently
igniting a carbon fire." The United States and other Western
countries DO NOT now build and do not now posses or operate
ANY reactors of such primitive design. Nor do we allow
containment buildings to have easily removable tops.
Containment buildings in the Western hemisphere are required to
be pressure vessels.
The Chernobyl accident released only 200 tons of
radioactive material, as much as a coal-fired power plant would
release in 7 years and 5 months. The Chernobyl accident had a
shorter "stack" than coal-fired power plants. The radioactive
material was released in a short time at ground level. That is why
the Chernobyl accident had impact. The Three Mile Island
incident did NOT release a noticeable amount of radiation into its
neighborhood because it had a good containment building and
because it was a more modern design.
The reason is that the Soviet Union didn't spend money on R&D
for nuclear safety. The US did. Over 60 years, American
reactors have become so safe it is ridiculous. We have way
overspent on nuclear reactor safety, driving up the cost of
electricity. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, coal fired electric
power plants kill 24,000 people per year in the US according to
Discover magazine. Reactors built in the US in 2008 are nothing
like the very first reactor ever, built in the US in 1944. Soviet
built reactors were just copies of the 1944 reactor.
The book: "Environmentalists for Nuclear Energy", by B. Comby
has more truthful information on this if you are interested. Don't
believe the urban legends that were started by coal companies.
Order the book from: http://www.comby.org/livres/livresen.htm
See: http://www.ecolo.org for more information on the book.
Most books on the subject in most libraries may be there because
of coal industry pressure.

I have no connection with the nuclear power industry. Nobody is
paying me to post this. I have never worked for the nuclear
power industry.

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Uranium in COAL
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 11:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Coal is almost pure carbon, except for the URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD,
MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine,
Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron, Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium,
Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum
and Zinc that are coal's impurities. Coal smoke and cinders are commercially
viable ORE for the above elements.
Chinese industrial grade coal is sometimes stolen by peasants for cooking. The
result is that the whole family dies of arsenic poisoning because Chinese
industrial grade coal contains large amounts of arsenic. Coal varies a lot.
You have to analyze it not only mine by mine but even lump by lump.
Reference:
OUR NUCLEAR FUTURE:
THE PATH OF SELECTIVE IGNORANCE
by Alex Gabbard
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
Oak Ridge, TN
Selections from the 19th Annual Conference
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
March 14,15,16, 1996
Nashville, Tennessee

Published by the
SOUTHERN FUTURE SOCIETY
1996
Edited by Jack D. Arters, Ed.D.
Conference Director
The truth is, all natural rocks contain most natural elements. Coal is a rock.
The average concentration of uranium in coal is 1 or 2 parts per million. Illinois
coal contains up to 103 parts per million uranium. A 1000 million watt coal
fired power plant burns 4 million tons of coal each year. If you multiply 4
million tons by 1 part per million, you get 4 tons of uranium. Most of that is
U238. About .7% is U235. 4 tons = 8000 pounds. 8000 pounds times .7% =
56 pounds of U235. An average 1000 million watt coal fired power plant puts
out 56 to 112 pounds of U235 every year. There are only 2 places the uranium
can go: Up the stack or into the cinders.
Since a reactor full fuel load is around 11 tons of 2% U235 and 98% U238, and
one load lasts about 10 years, and what one coal fired power plant puts into the
air and cinders fully fuels a nuclear power plant.
Compare 4 Million tons per year with 1.1 tons per year. 1.1 divided by 4 Million
= 2.75 E -7 = .000000275 =.0000275%. Remember that only 2% of that is
U235. The nuclear power plant needs ~44 pounds of U235 per year. The coal
fired power plant burns coal by the trainload. The nuclear power plant consumes
U235 in such small quantities yearly that you could carry that much weight in a
briefcase.
See also: http://www.ornl.gov/ORNLReview/rev26-34/text/coalmain.html

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People have always been radioactive without knowing it
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 11:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Background radiation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation

Background radiation is the ionizing radiation from several natural radiation
sources: sources in the Earth and from those sources that are incorporated in our
food and water, which are incorporated in our body, and in building materials and
other products that incorporate those radioactive sources; radiation sources from
space (in the form of cosmic rays); and sources in the atmosphere which primarily
come from both the radon gas that is released from the earth's surface and
subsequently decays to radioactive atoms that become attached to airborne dust
and particulates, and the production of radioactive atoms from the bombardment
of atoms in the upper atmosphere by high-energy cosmic rays. Since 1945 it also
comes from low levels of global radioactive contamination due to nuclear testing.

............shortened.............

Natural background radiation

Natural background radiation comes from three primary sources: cosmic radiation,
terrestrial sources, and radon. The worldwide average background dose for a
human being is about 2.4 mSv per year. This exposure is mostly from cosmic
radiation and natural isotopes in the Earth.

Cosmic radiation

The Earth, and all living things on it, are constantly bombarded by radiation from
outside our solar system of positively charged ions from protons to iron nuclei.
This radiation interacts in the atmosphere to create secondary radiation that rains
down, including X-rays, muons, protons, alpha particles, pions, electrons, and
neutrons. The dose from cosmic radiation is largely from muons, neutrons, and
electrons.

The dose rate from cosmic radiation varies in different parts of the world based
largely on the geomagnetic field and altitude.

Terrestrial sources

Radioactive material is found throughout nature. It occurs naturally in the soil,
rocks, water, air, and vegetation. The major radionuclides of concern for terrestrial
radiation are potassium, uranium and thorium. Each of these sources has been
decreasing in activity since the birth of the Earth so that our present dose from
potassium-40 is about 1⁄2 what it would have been at the dawn of life on Earth.
Some of the elements that make up the human body have radioactive isotopes,
such as potassium-40, so there is also a very small amount of internal radiation.

Radon

Radon gas seeps out of uranium-containing soils found across most of the world
and may concentrate in well-sealed homes. It is often the single largest contributor
to an individual's background radiation dose and is certainly the most variable in
the United States. Many areas of the world, including Cornwall and Aberdeenshire
in the United Kingdom have high enough natural radiation levels that nuclear
licensed sites cannot be built there—the sites would already exceed legal radiation
limits before they opened, and the natural topsoil and rock would all have to be
disposed of as low-level nuclear waste.

............shortened.............

The exposure for an average person is about 360 millirems/year, 80 percent of
which comes from natural sources of radiation. The remaining 20 percent results
from exposure to artificial radiation sources, such as medical X-rays and a small
fraction from nuclear weapons tests.

............shortened.............

Reference:
http://www.unscear.org/unscear/en/publications/2000_1.html

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Nuclear power can save us from EXTINCTION
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 11:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Environmental policy = energy policy
Energy policy = environmental policy
because Global Warming
can lead to Hydrogen Sulfide gas coming out of the oceans.

Hydrogen Sulfide gas will Kill all people. Homo Sap will go
EXTINCT unless drastic action is taken.

October 2006 Scientific American

"EARTH SCIENCE
Impact from the Deep
Strangling heat and gases emanating from the earth and sea, not
asteroids, most likely caused several ancient mass extinctions.
Could the same killer-greenhouse conditions build once again?
By Peter D. Ward
downloaded from:
http://www.sciam.com/
article.cfm?articleID=
00037A5D-A938-150E-
A93883414B7F0000&
sc=I100322
....................Most of the article omitted......................
But with atmospheric carbon climbing at an annual rate of 2 ppm
and expected to accelerate to 3 ppm, levels could approach 900
ppm by the end of the next century, and conditions that bring
about the beginnings of ocean anoxia may be in place. How soon
after that could there be a new greenhouse extinction? That is
something our society should never find out."

Press Release
Pennsylvania State University
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Monday, Nov. 3, 2003
downloaded from:
http://www.geosociety.org/meetings/2003/prPennStateKump.htm
"In the end-Permian, as the levels of atmospheric oxygen fell and
the levels of hydrogen sulfide and carbon dioxide rose, the upper
levels of the oceans could have become rich in hydrogen sulfide
catastrophically. This would kill most of the oceanic plants and
animals. The hydrogen sulfide dispersing in the atmosphere would
kill most terrestrial life."

www.astrobio.net is a NASA web zine. See:

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=672

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/modules.php?op=
modload&name=News&
file=article&sid=1535

http://www.astrobio.net/
news/article2509.html

http://astrobio.net/news/
modules.php?op=modload
&name=News&file=article
&sid=2429&mode=thread
&order=0&thold=0

These articles agree with the first 2. They all say 6 degrees C or
1000 parts per million CO2 is the extinction point.

The global warming is already 1.3 degree Farenheit. 11 degrees
Farenheit is about 6 degrees Celsius. The book "Six Degrees" by
Mark Lynas agrees. If the global warming is 6 degrees
centigrade, we humans go extinct. See:
http://www.marklynas.org/
2007/4/23/six-steps-to-hell-
summary-of-six-degrees-as-
published-in-the-guardian

"Under a Green Sky" by Peter D. Ward, Ph.D., 2007.
Paleontologist discusses mass extinctions of the past and the one
we are doing to ourselves.

ALL COAL FIRED POWER PLANTS MUST BE
CONVERTED TO NUCLEAR IMMEDIATELY TO AVOID
THE EXTINCTION OF US HUMANS. 32 countries have
nuclear power plants. Only 9 have the bomb. The top 3
producers of CO2 all have nuclear power plants, coal fired power
plants and nuclear bombs. They are the USA, China and India.
Reducing CO2 production by 90% by 2050 requires drastic action
in the USA, China and India. King Coal has to be demoted to a
commoner. Coal must be left in the earth. If you own any coal
stock, NOW is the time to dump it, regardless of loss, because it
will soon be worthless.
I have no financial connection to the nuclear power industry.

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EXTINCTION
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 6, 2008 11:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nuclear power is NOT dangerous. Coal is the most dangerous and radioactive
source of electricity. Nuclear power can save us from extinction. The
comparison has to be with extinction. Do you understand what the word "extinct"
means? If we keep burning FOSSIL fuels containing CARBON, EVERY
PERSON will be DEAD. THERE WILL BE ZERO SURVIVORS.
EXTINCTION means NO MORE HOMO SAPIENS, EVER. NOT EVEN the
worst possible nuclear war, a "general exchange" between the United States and
the old Soviet Union could achieve the extinction of Homo Sapiens. That would
mean exploding 40,000 H bombs all at once in the old days or maybe only 20,000
H bombs now.

The simultaneous deaths of 6,400,000,000 people would not even be noticeable in
the geologic record. Human population would rebound too fast for the dip to be
noticeable in the rocks. But extinction would clearly be noticed by some future
space alien or future intelligent earth species geologist. He would find no more
humans after the extinction event.

Yes, I know something about things nuclear. I am a physicist with experience in
the Army's lead lab for nuclear weapons effects.

Yes, I like wind, solar, hydro and geothermal energy. They are inadequate to
meet our needs with current technology. Proposed energy storage solutions have
not been figured out in all details. Wind and solar energy are only available part
time. Wind fluctuates so much most places that it accomplishes nothing. The
coal fired power plant has to maintain "spinning reserve," which means it
continues to burn just as much coal as before. The test is: Has it taken a coal fired
power plant off line? If it has NOT taken a coal fired power plant off line, it has
accomplished nothing. Counting windmills is otherwise pointless. Hydro and
geothermal are local and rare. ONLY nuclear power plants have actually taken
coal fired power plants off line, with rare exceptions.

PS: To be a "fossil" fuel it has to contain fossils if it is a solid. Coal contains
many fossils, mostly of plants. Oil is a liquid, but oil shale should contain fossils.
Uranium is NOT a fossil fuel. There is no guarantee of finding fossils
anywhere near a uranium mine.

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» WRONG! Posted by: AsteroidMiner
?
Posted by: seldom.seen on Jun 7, 2008 7:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we're still going to be around in 2050? who knew? guess i watch fox too much and have an apocolypse hanging over my head.

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Recycle nuclear fuel
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 8, 2008 12:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't recycle nuclear fuel because spent fuel is valuable and people steal it.
The place it went that it wasn't supposed to go to is Israel. This happened in a
small town near Pittsburgh, PA circa 1970. A company called Numec was in the
business of reprocessing nuclear fuel. I almost took a job there, designing a
nuclear battery for a heart pacemaker. [A nuclear battery would have the
advantage of lasting many times as long as any other battery, eliminating many
surgeries to replace batteries.] Numec did NOT have a reactor. Numec "lost"
half a ton of enriched uranium. It wound up in Israel. The Israelis have fueled
both their nuclear power plants and their nuclear weapons by stealing nuclear
"waste." It could work for any other country, such as Iran or the United States.
It is only when you don't have access to nuclear "waste" that you have to do the
difficult process of enriching uranium, unless you have a Canadian "Candu"
reactor that runs on unenriched uranium.
Numec is no longer in business. The reprocessing of nuclear fuel in the US
stopped. That was the only politically possible solution at that time, given that
private corporations did the reprocessing. My solution would be to reprocess the
fuel at a Government Owned Government Operated [GOGO] facility. At a
GOGO plant, bureaucracy and the multiplicity of ethnicity and religion would
disable the transportation of uranium to Israel or to any unauthorized place.
Nothing heavier than a secret would get out.

Nobody is paying me to post this.

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We don't have any more time to research wind, solar geothermal
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 8, 2008 12:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nuclear power can save us from the collapse of civilization and extinction.
Nuclear is the one source of energy that is actually proven to work for base load
power that produces 14.7 million tons of CO2 LESS than coal per 1000
megawatts per year. Burning coal to make electricity is the #1 source of CO2.
Nuclear power is also far safer than coal. Remember that coal also contains
URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel,
Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron,
Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Thorium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium,
Chlorine, Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum and Zinc. There is so much of
these elements in coal that cinders and coal smoke are actually valuable ores.

Great damage has been done, but we still have 8 years before natural positive
feedbacks lead to our extinction. Sea level will continue to rise even if we
disappear right now, but that is "minor" compared to poison gas bubbling out of
the ocean and killing almost everything including all of the people.
See the chart on page 274 of "Six Degrees" by Mark Lynas. We have until 2015
to BEGIN REDUCING our total CO2 output and we have until 2050 to actually
reduce our CO2 output by 90%. The curve has to start down by 2015, not we
have to think about it by then. The peak of our CO2 production has to happen in
the next 8 years.
How are YOU going to do it? Go ahead and invest YOUR money.

If we don't follow the schedule in Six Degrees, we will encounter positive
feedbacks which will take the control of the climate out of our hands.
Preventing the fall of civilization is a daunting task, but not yet impossible. We
have to hold the CO2 level to 400 parts per million to have a 75% chance of
avoiding the positive feedbacks. The natural positive feedbacks are explained in
Six Degrees. We have to deal with enormous changes in where agriculture works
because of climate changes that are already unavoidable. Don't give up.

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Meltdowns not possible in latest designs
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 8, 2008 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two types of 21st century reactors that cannot melt down no matter how
badly they are treated. Safety is guaranteed by laws of physics.
In the pebble bed reactors, stopping coolant flow removes the space between
fuel pellets. The space between fuel pellets must be filled with moving water.
The water is the moderator to slow down the neutrons so that the reaction can take
place. No coolant flow, no reaction. These pebble bed reactors will never
experience a meltdown. It just can't happen because of laws of nature.
In the recommended and newly invented helium cooled reactor, the core is
made of high temperature materials that simply will not melt if coolant flow
ceases. The core is cooled from a higher temperature by heating the containment
building, which also does not melt. The containment building heats its
surroundings in the case of coolant flow loss. The helium cooled reactor uses
helium as the working fluid to turn a turbine. Helium gas is the ideal fluid to turn
a turbine because it can be made very pure so that the turbine blades will last a
very long time.
Safety is assured in all US built reactors by the containment building, which is a
pressure vessel and which, as in the case of the now obsolete 3 mile island reactor,
can and did contain the overheated core. There were ZERO casualties.

American reactors are now too safe. Nuclear power is overpriced because of the
excessive safety. 20,000 to 30,000 Americans die each year because of those
poisons I listed below that come out of coal fired power plants. It is C O A L fired
power plants that kill 20,000 to 30,000 Americans each year. Nuclear power
plants kill ZERO Americans each year. It is COAL burning that will make us go
extinct in about 200 years if we keep doing it.

The problem is that we OVERSHOT on safety design because of people like
lrrysgl. American reactors are TOO safe. It is C O A L fired power plants that
give you 100 times as much radiation. Coal is almost pure carbon, except for
the URANIUM, ARSENIC, LEAD, MERCURY, Antimony, Cobalt, Nickel,
Copper, Selenium, Barium, Fluorine, Silver, Beryllium, Iron, Sulfur, Boron,
Titanium, Cadmium, Magnesium, Calcium, Manganese, Vanadium, Chlorine,
Aluminum, Chromium, Molybdenum and Zinc that are coal's impurities. We
could fuel our nuclear plants from the uranium and thorium in the smoke and
cinders from coal fired power plants.

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Obama on Alternative Fuels
Posted by: maxgladwell on Jun 8, 2008 12:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We saw and met Obama early on in his candidacy. He made an appearance at an alt-fuel station in LA. This was well before he had a chance of clinching the nomination, and he spoke in a very dedicated and detailed manner about climate change and the need for alternative fuels. He also said "certain types of ethanol", which we all interpret to mean cellulosic as opposed to corn. He's been out ahead on these issues from the beginning, and we feel that he'll follow thru without bowing to special interests.

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» Obama is a lawyer not a scientist. Posted by: AsteroidMiner
The containment building worked at 3 mile island
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 8, 2008 12:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All Western nuclear power plants have Containment Buildings
which protect the world outside from anything that can possibly
happen in the core. Western containment buildings are why
Chernobyl cannot happen in the US. Containment buildings are
pressure vessels, unlike the building the Chernobyl reactor was in.
The walls, ceiling and floor are a minimum of 1 meter [about 39
inches] thick and HEAVILY reinforced with steel. There is so
much steel reinforcing rod that when you look at one under
construction, you wonder where there will be any room for
concrete. There is no explosion that could ever happen inside the
core or the containment building that would have any chance at all
of making a hole in the containment building. The containment
building is many times stronger than required to contain any
explosion that could happen there.

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Wind & solar rape nature
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Jun 8, 2008 12:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Renewable energy could 'rape' nature
11:10 25 July 2007
Downloaded from: NewScientist.com news service
http://environment.newscientist.com/
article/dn12346-renewable-
energy-could-rape-nature.html

http://www.newscientist.com/
blog/environment/2007/07/
renewable-energy-bad-
nuclear-power-good.html

Phil McKenna
Ramping up the use of renewable energy would lead to the "rape of
nature", meaning nuclear power should be developed instead.
http://www.inderscience.com/
search/index.php?action=record
&rec_id=14671&prevQuery=&
ps=10&m=or
So argues noted conservation biologist and climate change researcher
Jesse Ausubel in an opinion piece based on his and others' research.
http://www.newscientist.com/
channel/opinion/mg18925361.
500-interview-be-
green-think-big.html
Ausubel (who New Scientist interviewed in 2006) says the key renewable
energy sources, including sun, wind, and biomass, would all require vast
amounts of land if developed up to large scale production – unlike nuclear
power. That land would be far better left alone, he says.
Renewables are "boutique fuels" says Ausubel, of Rockefeller University in
New York, US. "They look attractive when they are quite small. But if we
start producing renewable energy on a large scale, the fallout is going to be
horrible."
Instead, Ausubel argues for renewed development of nuclear. "If we want
to minimise the rape of nature, the best energy solution is increased
efficiency, natural gas with carbon capture, and nuclear power."
'Massive infrastructure'
Ausubel draws his conclusions by analysing the amount of energy
renewables, natural gas, and nuclear can produce in terms of power per
square metre of land used. Moreover, he claims that as renewable energy
use increases, this measure of efficiency will decrease as the best land for
wind, biomass, and solar power gets used up.
Using biofuels to obtain the same amount of energy as a 1000 megawatt
nuclear power plant would require 2500 square kilometres of prime
Midwestern farm land, Ausubel says. "We should be sparing land for
nature, not using it as pasture for cars and trucks," he adds.
Solar power is much more efficient than biofuel in terms of the area of land
used, but it would still require 150 square kilometres of photovoltaic cells
to match the energy production of the 1000 MW nuclear plant. In another
example, he says meeting the 2005 US electricity demand via wind power
alone would need 780,000 square kilometres, an area the size of Texas.
Part of the land used in Ausubel's calculations is for storage and
transportation: "Any renewable energy supply needs a massive
infrastructure, including steel, metal, pipes, cables, concrete, and access
roads."

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Nuclear is a Solution
Posted by: maxgladwell on Jun 8, 2008 12:32 AM   
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We also posted a thorough rebuttal of Roberts' ill-informed, antiquated, and shortsighted views on nuclear power. Any environmentalist who dismisses nuclear is either (a) so idealistic as to not realize the challenge we face, (b) ignoring the facts in favor of entrenched opinions of how one is supposed to think about nuclear, or (c) dangerously and irresponsibly optimistic about the capacity of renewables (plus efficiency) to supply all of the low-carbon energy we'll need over the next 50 years.

The reality is simple: at some point, the choice will come down to more coal or more nuclear. This is after factoring in highly optimistic assumptions about the capacity for the world to produce energy from clean, renewable sources. To put this into technical terms, this assumes we're already producing a shitload of solar and wind energy. Yet we still need MORE energy. Where will you find that capacity? Coal or nuclear. Take your pick.

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Better than the rest, but does that mean much?
Posted by: hnic14 on Jun 8, 2008 9:17 PM   
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Whatever happened to applying the precautionary principle as a fundamental decision-making strategy. Nuclear power is dangerous--we should be REDUCING our overall power consumption first and most importantly, rather than finding a quick fix band aid that may work because:

a)we're already exposed to radiation(is that really a valid argument?), b) we don' have anymore time to consider(ditto), c) nuclear is better than coal fired or 'clean coal' (both are bad, consider the amount of energy necessary to produce and maintain both and at what expense to communities/environments surrounding plants and containing materials).

If a candidate is going to base his intire campaign on the nebulous concept that is 'change', then hopefully, for both greens and the rest of the world, he could consider the roots of the problem and find a variety of already proven, long term solutions to address our environmental problems in this nation, and understand that the environment is a central tenet to providing the substantive, sustainable change he seeks in more popular issues such as education and health care. If not, I'm afraid that all tis excitement will be for not, as continually disenchanted and disenfranchised citizens will yet again not show up at the polls, particularly 'greens', and we'll have another of a long list of executive administrations that are all talk and no generational progressive action, at the expense of humanity.

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Wind
Posted by: Lomuland on Jun 10, 2008 1:15 PM   
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U.K. Secretary of State for Business, Enterprise, and Regulatory Reform, John Hutton, is advocating 33,000 megawatts of offshore wind power by 2020, enough to meet the electrical needs of every home in Britain.

http://www.earth-policy.org/Indicators/Wind/2008.htm

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Why not just give Asteroidminer his own page?
Posted by: edgeofnowhere on Jun 10, 2008 7:16 PM   
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Talk about monopolizing a site! This guy is taking up a lot of space -- we all know how wonderful the nukes would be -- so safe, no problem etc. Give it a break, buddy.

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