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Racists seem to think that illegal workers -- the hardest-working, poorest people in the US -- are getting away with something.

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Immigration 101

By Molly Ivins, AlterNet. Posted March 30, 2006.


Racists seem to think that illegal workers -- the hardest-working, poorest people in the US -- are getting away with something.
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In 1983, I was a judge at the Terlingua Chili Cookoff, and my memory of the events may not be perfect -- for example, for years I've been claiming Jimmy Carter was president at the time, but that's the kind of detail one often loses track of in Terlingua.

Anyway, it was '83 or some year right around there when we held The Fence climbing contest. See, people talked about building The Fence back then, too. The Fence along the Mexican border. To keep Them out.

At the time, the proposal was quite specific -- a 17-foot cyclone fence with bob wire at the top. So a test fence was built at Terlingua, and the First-Ever Terlingua Memorial Over, Under or Through Mexican Fence Climbing Contest took place. Prize: a case of Lone Star beer. Winning time: 30 seconds.

I tell this story to make the one single point about the border and immigration we know to be true: The Fence will not work. No fence will work. The Great darn Wall of China will not work. Do not build a fence. It will not work. They will come anyway. Over, under or through.

Some of you think a fence will work because Israel has one. Israel is a very small country. Anyone who says a fence can fix this problem is a demagogue and an ass.

Numero Two-o, should you actually want to stop Mexicans and OTMs (other than Mexicans) from coming to the United States, here is how to do it: Find an illegal worker at a large corporation. This is not difficult -- brooms and mops are big tip-offs. Then put the CEO of that corporation in prison for two or more years for violating the law against hiring illegal workers.

Got it? You can also imprison the corporate official who actually hired the illegal and, just to make sure, put some Betty Sue Billups -- housewife, preferably one with blonde hair in a flip -- in the joint for a two-year stretch for hiring a Mexican gardener. Thus Americans are reminded that the law says it is illegal to hire illegal workers and that anyone who hires one is responsible for verifying whether or not his or her papers are in order. If you get fooled and one slips by you, too bad, you go to jail anyway. When there are no jobs for illegal workers, they do not come. Got it?

Of course, this has been proposed before, because there is nothing new in the immigration debate. As the current issue of Texas Monthly reminds us, the old bracero program dating from World War II was actually amended in 1952 to pass the "Texas proviso," shielding employers of illegal workers from criminal penalties. They got the exemption because Texas growers flat refused to pay the required bracero wage of 30 cents an hour. Instead of punishing Texas growers for breaking the law, Congress rewarded them.

In 1986, the Reagan administration took a shot at immigration reform and reinstated penalties on employers. They weren't enforced worth a darn, of course. In 2004, only three American companies were threatened with fines for hiring illegal workers. Doesn't work if you don't enforce it.

This brings us to the great Republican divide on the issue. Conservatives, in general, are anti-immigrant for the same reasons they have always been anti-immigrant -- a proud tradition in our nation of immigrants going back to the days of the Founders, when Ben Franklin thought we were going to be overrun by Germans. But Business likes illegal workers. The Chamber of Commerce lobbies for them. They're lobbying now for a new bracero program. What a bonanza for Bidness.

Old-fashioned anti-immigrant prejudice always brings out some old-fashioned racists. This time around, they have started claiming that Mexicans can't assimilate. A sillier idea I've never heard. Why don't they come to Texas and meet up with Lars Gonzales, Erin Rodriguez and Bubba at the bowling alley. They can drink some Lone Star, listen to some conjunto and chill.

Racists seem obsessed by the idea that illegal workers -- the hardest-working, poorest people in America -- are somehow getting away with something, sneaking goodies that should be for Americans. You can always avoid this problem by having no social services. This is the refreshing Texas model, and it works a treat.

Aren't y'all grateful that we're down here doing exactly nothing for the people of our state, legal or illegal? Think what a terrible message it would send if you swapped Texas with Vermont, and they all got health care. In Texas, we never worry about illegals taking advantage of social benefits provided by our taxpayers. Incredibly clever, no?

One nice thing about the benefit of long experience with la frontera is that we in Texas don't have to run around getting all hysterical about immigrants. The border is porous. When you want cheap labor, you open it up; when you don't, you shut it down. It works to our benefit -- it always has.

Digg!

Molly Ivins writes about politics, Texas and other bizarre happenings.

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Good grief. I agree with Ms Ivins. I think I need a boiling shower.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Mar 30, 2006 1:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, yeah...put the criminals who hire people who enter illegally in jails.

The wall is possibly (probably) a stupid waste of money. We have no one to blame for it but ourselves--we elected these silly people to congress. It is nice to hear someone slamming the building of this silly wall in English.

P.S. Not everyone who wants to toss illegal aliens out and build a wall is a racist. You don't have to be a racist to be a xenophobe. Then again, you don't even have to be a xenophobe to oppose unchecked entry across the border. I do think you have to have a logical disconnect, or some sort of societal-neuronal short circuit to hate anybody you've never met, but hate isn't why most folks oppose open borders. That is the only thing that Ms Ivins get's wrong--as usual--the name calling. "Racist"? Nah. Just guarded and cautious; for better or worse, justifiably so or not.

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» Build a fence around CEOs Posted by: chasaturn
» RE: Good grief:bob wire Posted by: rsaxto
cobblepot
Posted by: cobblepot on Mar 30, 2006 2:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the economic pie gets noticeably smaller, people get pissier about "others" getting financial help. This time we have the ambient atmosphere of fear of All Others. A bad combination. Regarding the alleged drain of tax dollars by illegals (highly debated statistics), wouldn't it be fun to close tax loopholes, enact windfall oil taxes, and raise the rates for the uber-wealthy, and lower the maximum on the Death Taxes. Then americans wouldn't have to worry so much about illegal-drain.
By the way, molly, your quip about running oprah for prez made me naueous; she is just another dishonest media-whore.

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I love Molly. Even when...
Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 30, 2006 5:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...she doesn't look up from her typewriter to see that times have changed. Actually, when she sees that her keyboard no longer goes clackity clack, it should be obvious that times have changed. The "never mind" border is a thing of the past.

I love her feel good pieces, where she gives us the old downhome Texas girl yippe ki yeah getalong there little racists.

Nevertheless, our border with Mexico will be secured. No, it won't be perfect. What would Hollywood have to dramatize if Godzilla patrolled the Swanee (or whatever river it is they have down there). But it's gonna be different from her growing up days.

Latin America is a seething swamp of increasingly desperate people. They have my sympathy. But so long as they continue to elect mob bosses (OK. Bush fits that category, too. You're right, when it comes to governance, we got nothing to crow about.) our foreign aid to Latin America goes directly into investment in the US stock market.

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but no matter how you slice it, my objection to illegal immigration has nothing to do with race and everything to do with laws that should be obeyed.

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» RE: I love Molly. Even when... Posted by: appelpie
» You Durn Tootin Posted by: O.B.Server
» Venezuelan creditors Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Venezuelan creditors Posted by: FedUp
» RE: Venezuelan creditors Posted by: FedUp
» Argentines don't like US either Posted by: chasaturn
I don't hail from a border state...
Posted by: sgtmartin1 on Mar 30, 2006 6:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...but I come from one where immigrants in the early part of the last century came here and dug coal and died to build this country.

You nailed it Molly. Guys like Tancredo are playing this to sidle up to the worst among us. This parody is for you Tommy:

Tancredo Calls for Catapult to Return Aliens

EWM- (March 30, 2006) Anti-immigrant firebrand Representative Tom Tancredo (R-CO) said today that he’s looking forward to the upcoming House-Senate conference to reconcile differences in the immigration bill and will seek to add provisions that will make the final version even tougher.

“We’re going to build a wall to keep them out and I’m proposing a catapult to send those already here back,” said Tancredo, “when those alien rascals see their amigos being returned via airmail, they’ll think twice about climbing my wall to come here and take our jobs...”

...When a reporter suggested that Tancredo’s proposals were xenophobic, the congressman became enraged.

“That’s a mighty big word and I’m not sure what it means, but let me tell you a thing or two about history. This melting pot business is a big crockpot of shit. We’ve played footsie with the foreigners for 230 years in this country and what did it get us? Montezuma’s revenge, German measles, Asian flu and Dutch elm disease–they’re a scourge I tell you!...

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what do mexicans think of redheads molly?
Posted by: gotmyeyeonyou on Mar 30, 2006 8:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
so should the canadian gov to give full citizenship benefits to left leaning americans who manage to sneak into canada in order to improve their lives? gimmie a break, how are you going to compare anti german sentiment with anti mexican sentiment and try and claim anti immigration feelings must be racist? take a trip to mexico sometime, tell me what the race relations situation there is like among the noblest of the noble La Razza.

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» shut up racist!!!!! Posted by: gotmyeyeonyou
» RE: shut up racist!!!!! Posted by: JoshuaHolland
The Real Deal....
Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 31, 2006 1:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As usual, Molly Ivins is on the mark (Damn! Is this infuriating woman EVER wrong?) The thing that always amuses me is when George W. Bush, the First Fool, talks about the jobs that "Americans won't do". Will somebody, ANYBODY please explain to this idiot that they are jobs that Americans can't do because IT IS NO LONGER HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO SURVIVE ON THE MINIMIM WAGE! The fact that it has not been raised in over ten years is obscene.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: The Real Deal.... Posted by: thinkverybig
» RE: The Real Deal.... Posted by: jgr4
» RE: The Real Deal.... Posted by: Jammer2
» Baloney Posted by: montims
» RE: The Real Deal.... Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: The Real Deal.... Posted by: Blaugaia
Issue needs a cold, hard analysis
Posted by: Bobsays on Mar 31, 2006 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The issue of illegal immigration has become totally mired in the passions of our times. It is marked by fear, xenophobia, racism, jealousy, latino manifest destiny, etc. In fact, the issus are rather simple. Illegal immigration needs to be stopped. The border needs to be secured until such a day as free trade and free labour movement is a reality between Mexico and the US. Illegal workers do drag down wages, standards and benefits - it is because they are exploited by employers. Illegals are not the hardest working people in the US. There are plenty of hard jobs in the US, and they don't have the market cornered on breaking into sweat. It is also a neither here nor there issue. This is just sentimentality - the kind of sentimentality deployed by white liberals who see Mexicans as more noble and honourable because of their relative poverty. That is nothing but a condescending attitude and one that can only be espoused by somebody who has never known poverty themselves.

I come from poverty. And I have worked in many debveloping countries. Those people are no more noble than anyone else. Human beings come in all types, and darkness can lurk in a poor man's soul as much as it can in a rich man's. The only difference is that the rich man has more power.

The US government has a responsibility to uphold the law and the rights of its citizens. To date, it has washed its hands of this responsibility and inflaming this problem.

Many examples around the world exist of countries who both securely control their borders, and have economic dynamism and high living standards. It is a massive myth that loose borders bring economic prosperity. It is like saying loose bowls bring clean underpants.

Molly Ivans is a grade A liberal. She is in equal measures smug, condescending, elitist (would she ever live near the people she champions?), and economical with the truth.

Let's look at this issue from one stand point only: what is in the best interest of America's existing citizens.

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» "Latino Manifest Destiny"??? Posted by: Michelle
illegal migration 201
Posted by: lclark on Mar 31, 2006 3:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nope, a fence will not work, except as a funnel of more public money to a large multinational construction firm.

Nope, they’ll never throw the corporate advantaged into jail for breaking the law.

But the borders could be sealed using the National Guard.

And there is always the mention of racism if you are opposed to massive illegal immigration when the fact is that ‘la Raza’ ( the race) emphasizes ethnic identity.

It’s about globalization and loss of national identity and is one factor that goes with outsourcing, privatization, trade agreements that create non-democratic authorities that supercede our national institutions. Which is why the Republicrats gets together and pass legislation like NAFA, CAFTA, and the soon to be legalized open borders despite the majority of citizens opposing all those laws.

It’s also about wage suppression, crime, gangs, disease, the overwhelming of health care facilities and school, and the decay of infrastructure.

It’s about ignoring the millions that have crossed the border while cameras and RFID readers multiply and legal citizens get accustomed to random searches.

Left/right conservative/liberal………..just showbiz while the gutting of the country progresses.

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» I agree Posted by: Bobsays
» And more baloney Posted by: montims
» no agree Posted by: montana freeman
» RE: illegal migration 201 Posted by: YogiBear
racism
Posted by: lclark on Mar 31, 2006 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The words above were spoken by Jose Angel Gutierrez, professor, University of Texas, Arlington and founder of the La Raza Unida political party. His full comment was: "We have an aging white America ... They are dying ...We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him."
http://www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd180.htm

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» Latino manifest destiny Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: Latino manifest destiny Posted by: Fleuette
» RE: Latino manifest destiny Posted by: John Rice
» RE: Latino manifest destiny Posted by: AprilH
» RE: Latino manifest destiny Posted by: montims
» RE: Latino manifest destiny Posted by: montana freeman
Homeland Security Sting of Illegal workers-COMPLETELY DISGUSTING
Posted by: drricklippin on Mar 31, 2006 4:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't recall if AlterNet covered the story of how Homeland Security officials "stung" illegals by posing as OSHA officials at workplaces by offerring health and safety trainings. When I read this,as a Doc who has spent my 30 yr plus career in Occupational Medicine=worker health, I literally became ill requiring meds. Do I have any recourse besides pills? This practice was disgusting and highly unethical- maybe illegal?

Dr. Rick Lippin
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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» RE: Sting operations the norm in US Posted by: montana freeman
Yay for Molly
Posted by: Uncle Tupelo on Mar 31, 2006 4:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yay for Molly, and yay for AlterNet continuing to point out that the immigrant-bashers are racist demagogues.

Predictably enough, the racist demagogues are already here in force, loudly proclaiming that they're not racists, and even if they are racists, it's because the damned Meskins are racists too and racism just means stickin' up for Murka and Murkins, and don't borders mean nothin' anymore? And they're not demagogues because some perfesser at Harvard published this scientific study that shows that stupid beaners are stupid and beanerish because they're stupid beaners, and looky here at these charts and graphs and footnotes and this prissy diction that proves it.

I'll just continue to point out that until the working class can work together across racial and ethnic lines and those arbitrary lines in the sand we call national borders, the big bosses win. Every single time. And man are they amused by the spectacle of poor people fighting poorer people.

If the nativists really want to do something to help the native-born working-class (and I'm going to assume for a moment that they do, that they're not stooges paid by the word by the big bosses), they need to start demanding higher wages and better working conditions for everybody -- including stupid beaners in this country and south of the border.

But I suspect that I'll be shouted down and the spectacle will continue. It's just so much easier to kick down than it is to kick up. So much easier to take out your frustrations and anxieties on the immigrants picking berries and pushing mops than on the big bosses. So easy to convince yourself that the immigrants aren't really even human beings.

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» RE: I see where you are coming from Posted by: Uncle Tupelo
» Class war??? It sure is!!! Posted by: chasaturn
» RE: Yay for Molly Posted by: Fleuette
» With tolerance like yours... Posted by: YogiBear
It's Election Year Again
Posted by: ZenX on Mar 31, 2006 4:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see... who will we pick on this election year? Well, we've already gone after the gays... I know, let's go after the illegal immigrants- they can't even vote!

I've been listening to the discussions about immigration and I keep having flashbacks to the "War on Drugs". That one worked really well, didn't it? We have made drugs illegal, so no one will use them anymore, right? And there's plenty of room in prison, isn't there? And it's a lot cheaper to keep someone in prison than to actually treat their addiction, right?

The lesson from the War on Drugs is that no matter what you try to do about supply, those who benefit from the SALE of illegal drugs will always find a way to continue selling them. Until you fix the demand side of the equation, you will never win the war.

So, since the War on Drugs went so well, if we make it illegal to cross the border, that will stop illegal immigration, right? And if we put up a big fence, then that will stop it, won't it (hmmm... who do we get to build the fence in Texas, Arizona and California- I know, we can use illegal day laborers to build the fence- that will save some money)? And we can just borrow more millions from China to pay for rounding 'em all up and ship 'em all back south of the border where they belong!

I would amend Ms. Ivins' proposal to add that we should also imprison people who go to Walmart and buy cheap produce because you've encouraged illegal alien labor in the Texas and California agriculture market. And if you're in Texas and you buy a house from Perry Homes that was built with immigrant labor, we'll lock you away and throw away the key (actually, ANYONE who gives money to Bob Perry should go to jail anyway).

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» Nothing to do with election Posted by: Bobsays
The Bush/Limosine-Liberal Alliance
Posted by: numen on Mar 31, 2006 5:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Neo-Liberals at Alternet have had at least one article daily promoting the Bush/Neo-Conservative policy of legalizing the illegals and encouraging more to come by the millions, and parroting the Bush/RNC propaganda ploy of claiming any resistance to Bush's policy on immigration is racism.

I note that every paragraph which links those Liberals who question endless immigration to the right-wing racists is being promoted by those on here who call themselves Liberals but who are, to the contrary, allying themselves on this issue with the Neo-Conservative corporatists heading the Republican Party.

Just as Bush represents the economic interests of the top one tenth of one percent, those corporate magnates who used to make thirty times what the average worker makes, but now make 600 to 1,000 times that, now Alternet has come to represent the economic interests of the Limousine Liberals, those at about the 95th percentile of family incomes, those who still want to get abortions and allow their gay friends to marry, but whose economic interests are parallel to the Corporatists in wanting endless supplies of cheap labor.

In any large business, labor costs are typically thirty percent, and if you can import guestworkers or hire illegals for thirty or fifty percent less, then you get to reap the profits as bonuses, stock options, or hide them overseas for your retirement.

But the Limousine Liberals gains also. She gets to replace her Black nanny with a Brown one and pay half price. She gets to fire her Black lawn mowers and gardeners and replace them with brown ones, so she can stop listening to all those uppity requests for a "living wage". And he gets to have his tuck-pointing and room addition done for much less money without all those annoying distractions about safety issues.

And best of all, the Limousine Liberal can keep a clear conscience that, while saving tens of thousands of dollars a year, she is still a good Liberal because she didn't have to hire that poor white trash, but is still hiring minorities....even if Latinos are technically Caucasion (or has Spain become Black?).

And who cares if the Limo-Libs are putting the final nail in the coffin of the unions (even the Farmworkers Union)? Who cares if adding millions to the labor pool means the minimum wage never gets raised (and it would never be raised to a living wage level)? Who cares if OSHA becomes a joke because every time we legalize ten million workers and place them under the scope of the laws, another twenty million will come across the border to work illegally and replace those who replaced the ones before them?

No, the Limousine Liberals of Alternet do not have to think of the future consequences of their actions. But just like their good buddies at the Republican National Committee whose policies they promote and whose rhetorical tactics they utilize, they got theirs, and if you have to labor for a living, your job is to let them keep on getting theirs out of you.

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» Please define . . . Posted by: stormchilde1975
» Geez...so read why doncha Posted by: numen
» DLF: who the hell are you Posted by: codingguy
» Limosine-Liberal? Posted by: ZenX
» RE: Limosine-Liberal? Posted by: chasaturn
» RE: Limosine-Liberal? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Limosine-Liberal? Posted by: ZenX
» Exactly right Posted by: yesman
vizbarton
Posted by: vizbarton on Mar 31, 2006 6:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks Molly for bringing some humor to the whole debate. We sure need it. Only little thing about jailing the CEO is that part of the problem with doing that, as the Justice for Janitors campaign has painfully learned, is that companies have protected themselves from such possibility (and that of negotiating with the workers that clean their offices for pay, benefits, etc) by using contractors.
When I read people ranting off about building the wall, I imagine them either picking the strawberries for less than min wage themselves when they're out of of a job OR paying $20 for a basket of strawberries - be careful what you wish for!
if we're so obsessed with people obeying laws - let's just get just started on making sure labor laws are enforced in this country
contracting out to avoid responsibility for workers is a bit different than risking your life and your family's so you can feed your family

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» RE: vizbarton, embrace wisdom Posted by: gotmyeyeonyou
Its all about cheap labor
Posted by: the republic on Mar 31, 2006 6:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never cease to be amazed how greed manifests itself. Do working class Americans benefit from illegal immigration? No, any money they save in goods and services are more than spent in increased taxes - to support the increased demands on the education, medical and court systems.

The moneyed class - Democrats and Republicans - benefit. Not only from lower business costs (they privatize profit and socialize costs), but from dividing the working class to fight among themselves. "I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half." Jay Gould, 1886

Remember Kimba Woods, Clinton's AG nominee? She had to withdraw because of a nanny problem. Now Kimba and husband make a boatload of money. How greedy is it for parents who could easily afford the very best child care to cheap their way out - ON THEIR VERY OWN CHILDREN?

“For the love of money is the root of all evil.” Timothy, 6:10.

With regards to racism. Yes, there are racists in the anti-illegal immigration ranks. I wish it were not so, but racists are everywhere. That does not negate the fact the illegals are being used, with deliberate malice and aforethought, to diminish the living standards of workling class America.

I don't blame the illegals nearly as much as I do the monied interests, and it is here Molly and I agree (we usually do, darling!). Hold the folks that hire the illegals accountable. That is the only solution to the problem. The fence is mere PR.

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Molly has empathy but for whom?
Posted by: JPHickey on Mar 31, 2006 6:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"One nice thing about the benefit of long experience with la frontera is that we in Texas don't have to run around getting all hysterical about immigrants. The border is porous. When you want cheap labor, you open it up; when you don't, you shut it down. It works to our benefit -- it always has."

Apparently Molly has found her own comfortable niche in the Third World of Texas, so she realizes that the workers at the lowest wrungs of the economic ladder are really out of the picture, not worth the time of day.

Whoever primarily benefits most from opening the doors of cheap, undereducated labor calls the shots, after all the last of the bleeding-hearted liberals got out of Texas long ago, apparently.

However, here in Sedona, Arizona, at least some of us are concerned about cheap labor pulling down wages of all working below the management level.

Molly probably didn't really think through his column as thoroughly as she usually does. Maybe its not too lafe for her bleeding-heart to reawaken for our own disadvantaged, underapid citizens.

Personally I don't see any connection between my concern about the invasion of illegal aliens and bigotry. Sounds more like Washington spin to me. Come on, Molly.

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simple solution
Posted by: dikaiosyne on Mar 31, 2006 6:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its really very simple as to how to solve this illegal alien problem. Pick a date certain that once reached will require that NO government services are to be rendered to any illegal alien. No medical care, No education benefits and No welfare PERIOD. Say six months before law goes into effect so that these illegal aliens can get there stuff packed and catch the first Trailways bus home. Anyone failing to vamoose after date certain is treated as a felon with a minimum of 1 years incarceration in a work camp and forfeiture of all ill gotten possessions while living and working as an illegal alien in the U.S. The simplicity of the solution is readily apparent. You wont get illegal aliens if you cut off the subsidies. I have one more less workable solution that could conceivably rid us of the Mexican Braceros. I propose a boycott of any American company that employs illegal aliens such as virtually all landscape and fencing companies. If the American consumer gets angry enough about illegal immigration they should be willing to with hold their money from companies that employ them.

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» RE: Posted by: dikaiosyne
» What works for me... Posted by: chief of okeefe
The ONLY Immigration fix that will work - Biometric Social Security Numbers
Posted by: janvdb on Mar 31, 2006 7:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Molly's idea of jailing anyone who employs an illegal alien -- even one with docs that sail past the Social Security Adm'n website (all of them 3 months after law goes into effect) -- would only mean mass discrimination against Latinos, legal and otherwise.

I love Molly, but her idea WON'T WORK.

The idea now before Congress -- make checking the SS Adm'n website mandatory -- also WON'T WORK for the same reason -- fake docs are de riguer for the entire undocumented community.

5% of SS receipts are double payments -- two workers using the same SS #. This is the problem.

Having no social services whatsoever works for Texas -- is that the solution we want for the entire country?

I'd prefer a single-payer National Health System.

I re-post my idea to fix the problem below:

Border enforcement without detection of illegals at point of hire is useless showcase violence designed to fail; it continues the status quo, while satisfying racists with death and police action. Amnesty without detection of illegals at point of hire will only invite more illegals in addition to those just legalized. Harsh measures are cruel and hypocritical and will severely damage the economy.

I believe that the biometric SS # is the ONLY system which will work to detect illegals at point of hire and detecting illegals at point of hire is the only humane, effective way to end the flow.

We must prevent the employment of illegals at the point of hire.

The solution must combine:

• an effective method to prevent the hire of illegals; the only workable method is biometric Social Security numbers, discussed below.

• sped-up processing of those legally in line now

• the set-up of guest-worker processing stations in various Mexican states and other Latin American locales as a quid pro quo for REFORM there to address root causes for mass departure, discussed below.

• No "amnesty" is necessary. A tightening new-hire system will drive the 12 mn illegals now here home to get their paperwork done, provided the process there is quick, painless and gives sharp priority to English-speakers.

If the system were designed and executed properly, we could reduce border policing eventually.

The biometric Social Security Number

A thumbprint (or palmprint or iris) scanner should be installed in every large Post Office and employment office in the US. This would be updated daily by a central computer maintained by the SS Adm'n. The thumbprint (or palmprint or iris scan) of every person in the US would need to be put into a databank. This should be done when people renew their drivers licenses or change jobs.

To hire a new person, a representative of the employer and the prospective employee must present themselves physically before this device. First the employer would be identified by thumbprint (or palm or iris scan) and the keying-in of their Employer ID #, then the employee would place his thumb on the scanner and key in his SS#.

If the system works the same as those now in use by spas and healthclubs, the true ID of the employee would be instantly ascertained. If the person is fraudulently using the name and SS# of another (legal) person, the system would reject the new hire and the hiring could not legally proceed.

The problem which invalidates the “fix” now being discussed in Congress is: checking the SS# of a new hire on the SS Adm'n website does not weed out the person using the SS# and matching name of another real, legal person. The document mills have already shifted to producing these "good" doc sets as employers of those using unmatched SS#-name sets, unissued SS#s, etc are ALREADY being sent alerts by the SS Adm'n.

continued below . . .

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Biometric Social Security Numbers, continued
Posted by: janvdb on Mar 31, 2006 7:07 AM   
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The flaw now in the system: the SS Adm'n silently accepts SS payments from two to twenty employees on one SS#. These "double payments are about 5% of SS Adm'n receipts.

Each person would be allowed to process themselves for up to the equivalent of 2 fulltime jobs in the same area.

Then, the machine would issue a card authorizing the hire to be carried by the employee while working. Inspectors of beefed-up workplace enforcement branch of the CIS would spotcheck worksites on unannounced visits, swiping all workers' cards through a machine which would also scan their thumbprints to ascertain that all employees on that worksite were legally hired.

Employers of improperly process workers (or who workers who attempted to flee) would be heavily fined and the employees deported.

"Household employers" hiring temporary workers -- most of this is now done "for cash" -- would be required to do the thumbprinting (and spotchecked) but would not to withhold taxes, SS, medicaid, unemployment, or workman's comp. A "household employer" would be entities exempted by the IRS from 1099ing a contractor -- up to 4 hires per year, up to $2000 per employee per quarter and up to $5000 per year for all employees.

Unless this is done, the "casual labor" market would remain outside the law, where it is today, as "doing payroll" is too complex.

Reforms we should demand from sending countries before we issue work permits

The types of reform we should ask for in return for setting up guest worker processing stations:

* the set-up of free women’s-and-well-baby-care clinics to bring population growth down to match US rates and to match the rate of job creation in sending countries.

* the building of Clerk-and-Recorder and County Surveyor functions adequate that international title companies will issue title insurance on real estate in the state or nation being approved for guess worker processing.

* reforms to local and national legal systems.

We also need to end our disastrous "War on Drugs" which is destabilizing Latin America with huge illicit profits. If we focused on treatment, rehabilitation and mental health care, not interdiction, the price of drugs would fall, the profits decline and the international mafias would shrink.

Jan VanDenBerg

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what about queue jumping
Posted by: codingguy on Mar 31, 2006 7:55 AM   
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the only problem with illegal immigration -- it is, however, a BIG problem -- is queue jumping, because it undermines the legitimate immigration process. too bad molly didn't address that issue, which, to me, seems key.

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» RE: what about queue jumping Posted by: chief of okeefe
» RE: what about queue jumping Posted by: YogiBear
Waterman
Posted by: happybear on Mar 31, 2006 8:00 AM   
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I worked in a maximum security prison in Joliet, IL for several years, and discovered that although the inmates were imprisoned, they still had three squares a day, and a bed at night, and friends to talk to all day long. Television, and lively conversation intermingled with consistently low-class foul language was their daily routine. They enjoyed a life of personal freedom in the prison that many of them couldn't approach on the street. How is this relevant? Because the aliens who risk the problems getting into this country illegally are just on an adventure that has an exciting result for them: they can earn more money, eat more regularly, sleep more confortably, than many of them could in Mexico. We can easily reduce the problem of these illegals by refusing them the rights that law-abing citizens of our country enjoy. Since they are illegally here, and got here by abusing and disrepecting our immigration laws, treat them like War prisoners, only with less respect. Allow them to continue to live, but provide no medical care, no jobs, no choices except to get out. Make coming to this country illegally more uncomfortable and difficult than suffering in their own country. Tell them "Suck It Up, CRYBABY, you are no longer human, only ILLEGAL. If you don't like it, don't come back!"
Basically, I am saying that we should stop coddling criminals, and treat only citizens with respect. Illegals are not Citizens, and deserve no medical care without cost, no jobs at all, and nothing else except a truck ride back to the border.

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» RE: Waterman Posted by: FedUp
» RE: Waterman Posted by: plantland
Various Ignored Aspects
Posted by: StuartH on Mar 31, 2006 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the illegal crossing of the border up from
the south is discussed, whether in the media or
in forums like this, several important points are
usually ignored.

One is that we are a multicultural society and the
option to remain a European-derived culture with
no brown in the mix is gone. People whose ethnic
derivation is in a range from pure Indian to pure
Spaniard are increasingly intertwined in public
leadership positions, backed by voting groups that
are on their way to becoming a majority in states
like Texas. From the posts above, that should be
news to a lot of people.

I used to live in Molly's neighborhood and have so
far not found anything to equal the quality and the
variety of restaurants serving south of the border
food. There are a lot of immigrants in south Austin.
When you actually get to know some and hear the
stories they bring along with their cooking skills,
you see a different picture.

If you have ever met people who just arrived, you
know the smell of fear. If you are interested in
getting beyond the conventional arguments you
see why people are passing through terrible risks
and overcoming obstacles more meaningful than
a fence.

Yes, there are many stories of employers willing
to do anything to take advantage of people who
would work for a dollar or two a day rather than
starve or be subjected to the terror back home.

Not very long ago, a great many people came
through with stories of families under great
stress with soldiers doing the sort of tortures to
make Abu Graib look like a fun place to be.

When you peel the layers of the onion, you see
that American multinational interests combined
with such covert military backing as the School
of the Americas, has created a nightmare for
our cousins to the south, the would-be working
class and middle class peasants of most of the
countries south of our border.

Since we have been responsible for the past
century in helping to foster the cruel feudal
oligarchies many of these people are running
from, it would see logical to look at what we
could do to influence change. If we truly do
not want an exodus we should become more
intelligent about what it is really about and
how we might help those who would rather
stay in their ancestral home communities.

The first practical step: buy Fair Trade coffee
and other products. The philosophy behind
this is a business practice that says we could
afford a slightly higher price to pay the local
producers of various commodities a little
more so they can afford to live.

If we as a nation were smart enough to adopt
the Fair Trade model in our more large scale
economic dealings, we might see the flood of
immigrants reduced dramatically.

We as consumers and as Americans need to
become aware of the real cause - us - and
quit looking to blame the victim.

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» RE: Various Ignored Aspects Posted by: dangerouslysane
10:1 illegals BUILD the fence
Posted by: zedaker on Mar 31, 2006 8:46 AM   
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bet ya! one of the contractors or sub-contractors will have illegal workers.

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The "nothing can be done" argument
Posted by: uphill on Mar 31, 2006 8:56 AM   
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Hmm. "The Fence Won't Work," we can't militarize the border what-are-you-crazy?, and nothing can be done about would-be immigrants being rooked of their life savings by smugglers and dying by the thousands in the desert from dehydration, starvation and murder. Admire these plucky souls, but they're on their own, and anyone disturbed by this barbaric "system" of immigration is just a racist!

I think I follow today's installment, but I'm starting to think Ms. Ivins, the editors and a minority of those posting here have simply lost their minds.

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It makes no difference
Posted by: mcbride on Mar 31, 2006 9:15 AM   
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We can have any immigration policy we want and it makes no difference. Look at the demographics. Were it not for immigration the population of the US would be in decline, the baby boomers would have no one to care for them, outsourcing jobs becomes OK because there are no replacement workers, security would go to other countries or contracted out to companies who hire immigrants. Most "First World" countries have declining populations and are facing the same problems of replacememt for those declining populations. The "Third World" countries are having more babies. Demand and supply.
The other questions are ones of acculturattion and how we take care of the immigrants we need.

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