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Not only does the President not believe in evolution but ironically, he has become his own best argument.

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Intelligent Is as Intelligence Doesn't

By Will Durst, AlterNet. Posted August 11, 2005.


Not only does the President not believe in evolution but ironically, he has become his own best argument.

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Taking valuable time from clearing brush on what apparently is the most brush infested ranch in the country, President Bush spoke to members of the press encouraging our country's school districts to incorporate both sides of the debate regarding the development of humanity into their teaching plans: Evolution, the theory that man descended from an infinite number of apes typing on an infinite number of typewriters, and Intelligent Design, the idea that an unseen force (not necessarily God, but not un-godlike either) nudged our genes with big giant invisible fingers to the point where no child is left behind. Or something like that.

This is shocking to the same degree that goats eat shoes. Especially to anyone who's been semi-cognizant the last five years and watched Mr. Bush work his backward magic disproving Darwin with a series of policies stripping workers and minorities and women and anyone who isn't an energy producer (and I ain't talking methane gas) of their rights. Not only does the President not believe in evolution but ironically, he has become his own best argument.

One of the logic wedges Intelligent Designers like to jump into with both semantic feet is that Charles Darwin called his discovery "The Theory of Evolution." "See. It's just a theory!" Oh come on, grow up. What's next? You going to require the Principle of Atomic Force attend PTA meetings? What about the Law of Gravity? Does an initiative for repeal lie in its immediate future? Apparently all we need do is to hire Denny Crain or petition one of those activist judges and voila ... broken vases and scraped knees -- a thing of the past. Hey, it's just a law! And a bad one at that.

The theory of Intelligent Design maintains life on Earth is too complex to have developed through Evolution. Too complex? Oh no! You mean there are things we don't know? Of course there are. We have brains the size of peas. And I tell you, if we keep dumbing down our schools, the concept of fudge will seem complicated. Not to mention innocent before guilty. Wasn't too long ago people thought a solar eclipse was a dragon eating the sun as it rode across the sky on the back of a giant turtle. But that was just my Uncle Bud draining a six-pack on his riding mower.

Now don't get me wrong, the Bible is a great book, but it has as much to do with science as gummi bears have to do with aerospace navigation. How soon before 2 + 2 equals whatever God wants it to be? Back in the 17th century, Galileo proposed the Earth revolved around the sun, not the other way around, and was promptly convicted of heresy and imprisoned for the rest of his life at a time when home detention did not include adequate satellite reception. In response to his pardon from the Catholic Church 400 years later, Galileo conveniently was unavailable for comment.

If these people are really seeking alternative theories as to how life originated, I got one. I got a doozy. Santa killed the evil Martian overlords and flew us here from Pluto on his sled. How about that? Hey, it's a theory! And I want to see it included on the blackboard of every science classroom as part of the new curriculum: Evolution, Intelligent Design and Santa's Sled. At least my Santa Sled Theory is flexible enough to explain the reason for the human appendix -- Martian mark of the insurgent.

Digg!

Political comic Will Durst still has his appendix.

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Let's use the scientific method shall we?
Posted by: errandchild on Aug 11, 2005 7:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alright, watch me disprove ID in one fatal swoop. Are you ready?

In order for a theory to hold water it must have physical evidence. Evolution has physical evidence. Ever heard of Lucy?(the ape-man that was the first ape to walk upright, not the cartoon) Not to mention the many other hominid species that evolved from her. Their remains actually exist. You can touch them with your hands (although for preservation purposes you might have to wear latex gloves).
What physical proof does ID have? Nah-Ahh! No bible thumping! This bogus "science" is a a fancy way of saying Creationism. That deals with religion. Religion disguised as science is still religion and not science.
I dare anyone to prove this wrong, and remember, No bible thumping!

Oh yeah, and thanks Will for another halarious article.

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» See Nov 2004 Nat'l Geographic Posted by: Bic Pentameter
» And I appreciate that Posted by: errandchild
» RE: And I appreciate that Posted by: tuan.tran
» RE: And I appreciate that Posted by: errandchild
» No "bible thumping" here... Posted by: Goldilocks
» RE: Why don't they disappear? Posted by: velvetfish
» RE: No "bible thumping" here... Posted by: jobie1kno
» Oh, Grow Up! Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Wishful thinking? Posted by: velvetfish
» RE: Wishful thinking? Posted by: memerot
» RE: Wishful thinking? Posted by: jca
it's all about the PEER-REVIEW
Posted by: nitsua1023 on Aug 11, 2005 7:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You will never see a published journal which has been PEER-REVIEWED by a panel of scientists which supports creationism. I DEFY anyone to produce a link.

We all believe what we want. But convincing others requires evidence. Why don't the creationists pull together all of their vast economical resources and produce one peer-reviewed journal. Why? Because they fear science.

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» Allow me to take the other side Posted by: errandchild
Bah...
Posted by: LostInDaJungle on Aug 11, 2005 7:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will,

Do you really not understand the difference between a Principle, a Law, and a Theory? A Theory means an unproven hypothesis, where as a law is a proven hypothesis.

Evolution is a guess, and holes get punched in that theory as science marches on. I may not argue for intelligent design, but consider that a creation myth is common to all cultures and that the fossil record does not support the theory... As far as the "designers" being godlike, what is the qualification of "God" other than our creator??

You are arguing for keeping ideas away from our children. You are asking mother government to tell a school that they can ONLY teach that man descended from apes. Perhaps if the school system was allowed to discuss both sides of the issue when you attended, you would understand that it's as much of a guess as saying we were created by something or someone.

I'm not a defender of intelligent design, but I don't think discussing both sides of the issue ever hurt anyone. Evolution is our best Theory right now, but it fails to explain many of the facts that we have uncovered. The test it seems to pass is Occam's Razor, in that if you don't believe in God, it's the most logical explanation. If you do, then creation becomes the most logical.

To say the Bible is not relevant is also a bit misleading, as many events in the Old Testament have been verified. Much of the Old Testament is historical record of wars, geneaologies, etc... Events like the Flood have been verified archaeologically and geologically. We really don't know what parts of the Bible are true, and which are extrapolated. Roman records back up many of the events surrounding the New Testament. I don't mean to say that every word is true, but you also cannot say that it is entirely a work of fiction either.

I'd reccommend Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything, as he devotes a light chapter to the debate and recent developments, as well as The Evolutionists, which highlights the debates even within the Evolutionist community.

If nothing else, someone wanting to prove evolution could be introduced to the arguments against at age 14 instead of 21.

Yeah, shame on Bush for not telling Teachers what they can't teach.

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» RE: Bah... Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: Bah... Posted by: pturet
» RE: Bah... Posted by: jca
» RE: Bah... Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Bah... Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Bah... Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Bah... Posted by: bettsoff
» RE: Bah... Posted by: FoxintheStars
» RE: Bah... Posted by: radnar
» RE: Bah... Posted by: Wacre
» RE: Bah... Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» RE: Newton's Law of Gravitation Posted by: velvetfish
» RE: Newton's Law of Gravitation Posted by: bornxeyed
» They call themselves "Otherkin" Posted by: errandchild
» RE: They call themselves "Otherkin" Posted by: FoxintheStars
» RE: Bah... Posted by: Limeyfellow
» RE: Bah... Posted by: starlit
» RE: Bah... Posted by: jca
Lucy...
Posted by: LostInDaJungle on Aug 11, 2005 8:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since someone brought up Lucy, the find of Lucy was a 40% complete fossil, which included a jaw bone (one of severall at the site), and heavier body bones. The knees alone were found 200 feet deeper, a mile and a half away from the jaw bone.

According to Richard Leakey, Lucy’s skull is so incomplete that most of it is ‘imagination made of plaster of paris’.

At any rate, even if Lucy is genuine, she is not believed to be a link between Human and Ape, but rather a sub-branch of evolution. "The various australopithecines are, indeed, more different from both African apes and humans in most features than these latter are from each other." (Charles Oxnard)

There is no reputable scientist out there that will claim that Lucy is without a doubt a pre-human ancestor. Most believe her to be part of a line of now extinct chimpanzees.

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» RE: Lucy... Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: errandchild
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: LostInDaJungle
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: dankm
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: ergos
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: LostInDaJungle
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: bornxeyed
» And evolution ... Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Lucy... Posted by: dankm
This is it?
Posted by: Uccellla on Aug 11, 2005 9:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone actually sat down and designed this? Someone had all kinds of infinite power and this is what they came up with? I feel like Mr. Freckles:
http://www.harpers.org/CartoonMrFreckles.html

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» RE: This is it? Posted by: Basenjis
Great rebuttals of Creationist/ID arguments
Posted by: nickptar on Aug 11, 2005 9:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What Century Is This?
Posted by: laime22 on Aug 11, 2005 10:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's shocking to even be having this discussion in the 21st century.
Teaching the theory of evolution teaches children the scientific method of testing a theory. That in itself is vital for children to understand. If they want to learn about Csreationism or ID in bible class or at home, that's a matter of faith. In school, we cannot teach faith. We can only teach the mothods of scientific inquiry. It is conceivable that in another 100 years, scientific evidence collected will lead to changes in today's knowledge of evolution, just like our understanding of outer space is expanding as we gain new observations and data.
It is the scientific method to adjust our knowledge as we gain new information. The jump from science to ID does not fit into the scientific method of inquiry because there is no scientific test for God (call him an Intelligence, or whatever).
A Creator theory is a matter of faith, and it has no place in a science class.
It's a free coutnry, and people can believe whatever they want. In a science class, though, the subject has to be science.

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» RE: What Century Is This? Posted by: nakis
» RE: What Century Is This? Posted by: ergos
» RE: What Century Is This? Posted by: podling
The Missing Link
Posted by: iamsenstiveyellow on Aug 12, 2005 4:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one has ever proven that man evolved from Apes. Or anything else.

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» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: nickptar
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: AnarchX
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: Wacre
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: iamsenstiveyellow
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: radnar
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: ergos
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: ergos
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: errandchild
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: iamsenstiveyellow
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: errandchild
» Revelation!! Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: Europe
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: psman1974
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: memerot
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: Wacre
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: iamsenstiveyellow
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: JoeEbola
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: nickptar
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: Wacre
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: iamsenstiveyellow
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: Wacre
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: iamsenstiveyellow
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: Wacre
» To repeat: Posted by: nickptar
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: dankm
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: Wacre
» RE: The Missing Link Posted by: socgrrrl
Intelligent Chaos
Posted by: FoxintheStars on Aug 12, 2005 5:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I think life is too complex to have been intentionally designed. When intelligences (people) create fictions, they generally make some kind of sense. They can be extremely powerful and beautiful in that, but the miraculous craziness of reality and life? I think that's gotta be something else.

But I'm being unscientific. ^_~

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Open to all Designers
Posted by: dickbarney on Aug 12, 2005 5:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Following the logic of the Intelligent Design followers I find that there are other Designers. It appears that there may be several intelligent designers, such as designers for crystals or for flowers.

Even more importantly there are certainly several Evil Designers for cruel leaders and for vicious parasites among others. Certainly the evils are too many, too varied and too complex evil for one Evil Designer.

I have also found that there are the Non-Intelligent or maybe just Poor Designers. They are the ones that put useless appendixes in humans.

I am looking to work with others to find other Designers. It would be greatly appreciated if someone could start several Web sites to communicate and coordinate this research.

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» ID Research Center Posted by: xyz2002
» RE: ID Research Center Posted by: existential comrade
» RE: Open to all Designers Posted by: nitsua1023
» RE: Open to all Designers Posted by: Shehova
» RE: Open to all Designers Posted by: Wacre
Sarcasm never hurt anybody
Posted by: Michiganman on Aug 12, 2005 6:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks Will for another jab at the ridiculous policies of Bush and company. Once again I would like to mention that obviously noone knows for certain how life on this planet began. Teaching creationism in schools is just plain religion. The founding fathers saw the quagmire that would result if religion and government were mixed. Although many of them were christians themselves they knew that to endorse one religion would abridge the rights of others. Wheather God caused evolution or santa brought us from mars is not any concern of our government. Science must be based on observable data. What I beleive in regarding religion has no appropriate relation to what is taught in school! To keep this country truly free religion MUST be kept out of our government.....duh.

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» RE: Sarcasm never hurt anybody Posted by: timg98376
» AGREE 10000% Posted by: Michiganman
How about other designers
Posted by: xyz2002 on Aug 12, 2005 6:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's just try to see how we are going to teach ID. We have different designers from different religions and how about those tribal gods or Buddha designers? I know at least more than 10 designers out there waiting to be introduced to our smart school kids. Hopefully we could managed to pack them all in one class. Oops, we already have such a class which is called literature. Apparently GW took neither science nor literature in school. Of course he didn't take history either.

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» RE: Courses GW took? Posted by: velvetfish
» RE: Courses GW took? Posted by: Fade
masterfran
Posted by: masterfran on Aug 12, 2005 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to see the spaghetti monster theory taught in all american schools . I believe this theory is correct and needs to be included in our curriculums along with creationism . All hail spaghetti god!!!!

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» RE: masterfran Posted by: hbw
» RE: masterfran Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: masterfran Posted by: sixtiesqueen
Forget ID and Evolution
Posted by: cyclone on Aug 12, 2005 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only really important thing that came out of Boosh's comments was something like, "we should be exposed to both sides of the issue." Does this mean we can re-introduce condoms to kids before they all become HIV Positive? And stop with the abstinence crap?

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Funny article! And some evolutionary nitpicks
Posted by: CrystalD on Aug 12, 2005 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I got a laugh out of the article. Very amusing.

Meanwhile, here are some nitpicks that I always feel compelled to state whenever evolution is brought up, because so many people misunderstand them:

1) Humans did not evolve FROM apes. Both humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. Monkeys are not our uncles - they're our cousins.

2) Darwin's theory of evolution says nothing about how life began. That's a completely different kettle of fish, or kettle of primordial soup, entirely. Evolution can tell us that birds probably descended from dinosaurs, for instance, but not the ultimate origins of life nor its meaning.

3) Evolution has nothing to do with sociobiology, evolutionary psychology or "Social Darwinism" (which should have been called "Social Spencerism," as Stephen Jay Gould pointed out). Many scientists - even evolutionary biologists - look on sociobiology as a pseudoscience at best.

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» Nitpicking your nitpicks Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Nitpicking your nitpicks Posted by: CrystalD
» RE: Nitpicking your nitpicks Posted by: HighCarbDiet
We need more stickers!
Posted by: Crazy H on Aug 12, 2005 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You godless god-haters just want to stuff your beliefs down the holy throats of The Enlightened. Well, your Jesus-denying "science" schemes are at an end.

Once we get ID into the schools, we'll take it the next logical step. We'll put stickers on books pointing out that electro-magentism is only a theory. According to The Bible, light was created before the sun! So there, that disproves Einstein's THEORY of relativity. And a lot of scientists think so too.

Gravity is also merely a theory. True Christians know how gravity works: Hell is straight down and gravity is just because Satan sucks!

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» RE: We need more stickers! Posted by: errandchild
Good work
Posted by: Lawrence on Aug 12, 2005 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excellent column, Will. A very enjoyable read. Hope you got the CD I sent.

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What's the big deal?
Posted by: Arister on Aug 12, 2005 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You guys spend too much time defending Evolution and preaching to the converted. So much pointlessness is making my head hurt.

Squashing ID bugs with their own arguments is rather easy. So Evolutiion is just a theory? Then Intelligent Design is not even an... hypothesis. It does not state anything clearly, except that Evolution is an inconvenient blockroad.

So you want to embarass ID retards? Show interest to what they say. Ask them to make specific claims. Then ask them to sort of try to prove them (because you're interested in their science, you know). And once they sort of manage to babble something out (make sure to drag it on for as long as you can), ask them how it sort of relates to science or anything like that. They will crack under the weight of their own nonsense.

You know what your problem is? You take them too seriously. Spend less time being shocked by the might of their stupidity and more making fun of them without even bothering to pretend to show some form of resistance. Wasting your time being *shocked* or defending against their groundless and pathetic accusations makes you no wiser than them while making them stronger and you look funny.

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» Oh nothing, just our children Posted by: Michiganman
» RE: What's the big deal? Posted by: ergos
Lets call Bush and ID what it really is
Posted by: ALANHESTER on Aug 12, 2005 3:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since Bush feels that ID should be taught in all schools, and we know that ID is nothing more than a religious explanation of evolution, then it is safe to assume that Bush REALLY wants to push Christianity. Since he feels that ID should be taught to children who may not be Christian, he is proposing to force his religion on others. A terrorist by any other name is still a terrorist.

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» Nitpick Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Nitpick Posted by: ALANHESTER
» RE: Nitpick Posted by: nakis
Evolution's not a theory
Posted by: philv02 on Aug 12, 2005 9:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Evolution (meaning change over time) of biological organisms is NOT A THEORY. It is an OBSERVATION-A FACT. We know that dinosaurs, trilobites, and mastodons existed in the past & do not exist now. To dispute their existence in the fossil record is equivalent to maintaining that the earth is flat while looking at a satellite picture of the globe (to be sure, many creationists are capable of this).
Darwin's THEORY to explain HOW evolution of organic forms occurred is NATURAL SELECTION. It is supported not only by the fossil record of multiple adaptive radiations, but by such real-time contemporary observations as evolution of pesticide resistance in insects, e.g. the boll weevil. When so-called "ID" proponents claim there are "holes" in that theory, their alternative is to pose supernatural explanations for natural phenomena. What a crock! As usual, the right wing does not care to be troubled with the measurable or the demonstrable (see also "Global Warming").
How ironic that our rigorous preservation of religious freedom in this country has spawned such a noxious fundamentalist movement that imperils our freedom of thought & threatens to subject us to a right-wing theocracy. This is exactly the sort of thing that men like Jefferson & Adams strove so mightily to protect us from.

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» RE: volution's not a theory Posted by: ALANHESTER
Objections? Unbelievable!
Posted by: lross_tsu on Aug 13, 2005 12:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just cannot believe it. Like all other worthwhile human beings reading these comments, I am rubbing my temples in frustration, witnessing people actually honestly defending religion after reading this honest and humorous article.

I believe that humanity should progress beyond the animalistic urge to worship gods. Most of the world believes in progress like I do. Please, Fundies. Stop slowing down humanity.

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» developmental stages Posted by: turil
» RE: developmental stages Posted by: nakis
I thought article would take another turn
Posted by: diof09 on Aug 13, 2005 6:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was prepared for Mr. Durst to comment on how Mr. Bush doesn't believe in evolution but his policies favor "survival of the fittest": meaning that only those that can accumulate enough resources through whatever means possible (legal or illegal) are allowed a seat at the table "pay to play" and allowing those that can't accumulate to wither and die. Can we all say Eliminationist? The old Robber Barons in their old faded portraits must be looking down breaking into evil smiles.

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hey ya'll
Posted by: smiley_face3693 on Aug 13, 2005 12:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ok...im a junior in high school and my english class..(advanced) has been assigned to come to this sight and read a column from one of the many people. each student has been assigned a person and i got Will, this column is really actually very interesting, i figure this assignment would be dull as heck but its actually pretty cool. im saposed to come here every week, read the new column, print the page and write a full report on my veiws so i figured i may as well tell all ya'll too. hee hee. i am religious, im not really "bible thumper" as ya'll call it, but i do beleave in god. at the same time though, i like science and i want to beleave in theories and laws, but ya'll dont seem to understand how confusing this all is. its hard enough trying to figure out weather it really was god that created the world, the big bang theory or if we evolved. yet i really dont want bush butting in trying to tell us "well, this is the way it is and this is what u have to learn about" , thats bull....things are complicated enough in my opinion and bush really needs to keep religion out of government. he shouldnt be worrying about trying to change the way the school systems are; he needs to worry about the war. and gas prices dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!

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» Wow. Posted by: nickptar
» Great Posted by: errandchild
» RE: hey ya'll Posted by: churchofone
» RE: hey ya'll Posted by: turil
» RE: hey ya'll Posted by: mishanti
» RE: hey ya'll Posted by: monkeybrig
» Get Thee... Posted by: nakis
» RE: Get Thee... Posted by: errandchild
God Evolved
Posted by: justAnEgg on Aug 13, 2005 5:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you notice one big irony regarding Intelligent Design: it's a modern times speculation which evolved from religious belief in god to fit the contemporary world? The ID construct coudn't have been concocted 300 years ago, before the dawn of modern science and modern myths like UFOs, for instance.

Fundies claim that life is too complex to have been created spontaneously. In the meantime, they've heard of genetical engineering which modifies or even creates life forms and, voila, found the key to the origins of life puzzle. According to ID speculation, only an omniscient and omnipotent being could have created the universe and life on earth. But, since it is difficult nowadays to sell the idea of god as science, the clever fundies wrapped the idea of god up into a package of modern science + an abstract omnipotent/omniscient intelligence. The end result is that the IDEA OF GOD EVOLVED under the pressure of modern sciences. And, finaly, there's an unnoticed paradox to it: even for fundies themselves god is absolute no more! Lots of fun!

What's not fun is that ID is a form of social pathology blossoming in our society. Why social pathology, you may ask? Well, in my opinion, it's a form of collective inferiority complex.

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» Precisely! Posted by: nickptar
» RE: God Evolved Posted by: dankm
» RE: God Evolved Posted by: Basenjis
Missing the point...
Posted by: magistre on Aug 13, 2005 7:07 PM   
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You're all looking at the details (which no SANE person disputes) and missing the point: It all started (not literally) with Reagan. He would walk into a meeting with EXPERTS (who would be accopanied with foot-thick stacks of facts backing them up). He'd listen to them for a minute or so and interupt with..."Well, I once knew a guy..." ,and proceed with a fifteen minute anecdote and was allowed to "trump the Experts" with his story. He was allowed to do this and no one said a word. Our country has been stolen by these self-serving vampire's and what are we going to do about it? Are we going to keep sticking our heads in the sand and patting ourselves on the backs for writing "snippey" comments on blogs?

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» RE: Missing the point... Posted by: jwilson
» RE: Getting the point... Posted by: velvetfish
» Clap, clap, clap... Posted by: turil
Intelligent design? Bah!
Posted by: ghoster on Aug 14, 2005 8:02 AM   
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Just take a look at the bush family if this is intelligent design then frogs can fly.

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I look at it this way
Posted by: cmysticism on Aug 14, 2005 11:11 AM   
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Too many conservatives hate and fear science. No doubt about that. Too many liberals fear religion or any theory or idea that can be interpreted as being "religious" in nature. Hence, they will sometimes mercilessly pan hypotheses that in any way implies that intelligence or sentience is not limited to human beings and organic flesh alone or that there are 'reasons' behind occurrances in the universe (notions explored, in part, by quantum physics), even if the arguments are done scientifically, with an attempt to gather real data and evidence. Evidence will be dismissed as "belief" if that evidence doesn't fit the ideological theory that the universe is an entirely random, ultimately consciousless place.
As a member of a minority religion (Wicca), my interest is in evidence, not faith, when it comes to Intelligent Design. Will Bush and his consortium give us evidence? No, he is too enamored of "faith" alone, which is indeed nonsense for the science books. We need evidence and empirical data, not faith and belief.
For those who subscribe to the Intelligent Design theory (as I do), I believe evidence can be found if sufficient data is pursued and studied. And no such evidence will 'validate' religion...the latter is simply a personal means of interpreting certain data, such as the scientific idea of consciousness existing outside of organic neural matter, but ensconced as energy, and the idea that a 'conscious' design helped manufacture our human forms (not necessarily akin to the Judeo-Christian conception of 'God', which is simply a single conceptual *interpretation* of a universal consciousness outside of but connected to organic matter).
Conservatives, please do not prefer faith over evidence. And liberals, please do not fear evidence that doesn't coincide with materialistic atheism's ideological demands. Our kids should be taught all of the above, but to emphasize the need for evidence in science...and let them sort out the confusing mess themselves, which they are fully capable of doing.

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» Th only thing true.... Posted by: LostInDaJungle
» RE: Th only thing true.... Posted by: owleyes
» An open mind Posted by: turil
Intelligent Design?
Posted by: karlss on Aug 14, 2005 9:00 PM   
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I was published on this topic May 25 on Counterpuch.com. I have the post with one change - 450 million years vs my original 450 millenia - on my sight http://home.comcast.net/~karlss

There you will also find a link that is even funnier than Will's under Fun Stuff. Or simply go here: http://www.venganza.org. It is truly hilarious. Of course, I had to leave Bush out of my arguments, we was not worthy of being included in the discussion.

Karl

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Just a second ID = Genetic Manipulation.
Posted by: cordas on Aug 15, 2005 3:19 AM   
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Why do ID believers have a problem with genetic research as surely we are just taking our rightful place as the the "Intelligent Designer".

If ID is true, then it is obvious to me that our IDer intented for us to take on this roll, as s/he has designed us to the point where we are able to take up his/her tools and us them for ourselves. THIS HAS TO BE HIS/HER plan otherwise why would they have designed us to this point?

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